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Today, Linda Booth sits down with President Scott Murphy to discuss some new guidelines Community of Christ's First Presidency released regarding the sacrament of communion in online settings. Scott shares how the guidelines came to be, what exactly they mean, and how they are impacting ministry in the church.
To read these guidelines, click here.
Host: Linda Booth
Guest: Scott Murphy
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Intro and Outro music used with permission:
“For Everyone Born,” Community of Christ Sings #285. Music © 2006 Brian Mann, admin. General Board of Global Ministries t/a GBGMusik, 458 Ponce de Leon Avenue, Atlanta, GA 30308. copyright@umcmission.org
“The Trees of the Field,” Community of Christ Sings # 645, Music © 1975 Stuart Dauerman, Lillenas Publishing Company (admin. Music Services).
All music for this episode was performed by Dr. Jan Kraybill, and produced by Chad Godfrey.
NOTE: The series that make up the Project Zion Podcast explore the unique spiritual and theological gifts Community of Christ offers for today's world. Although Project Zion Podcast is a Ministry of Community of Christ. The views and opinions expressed in this episode are those speaking and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Community of Christ.
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[inaudible].
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Welcome to the Project Zion podcast.
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This podcast explores the unique spiritual and theological gifts Community of Christ offers for today's world.
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Welcome to the fifth episode of Coffee Buzz.
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My name is Linda Booth.
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I'm a retired Community of Christ apostle and director of communications having served nearly 22 years now.
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I enjoy living out my discipleship as a volunteer with one of my roles being podcast host.
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So welcome Coffee Buzz podcast listeners to another conversation with a member of Community of Christ's First Presidency.
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Today I'm talking with president Scott Murphy, one of two counselors to the prophet president Steve Veazey.
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Welcome my dear friend to this cold day in Independence, Missouri.
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I know you grew up in Washington, was the weather is bad there and is cold there as it is here?
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Well, it does get cold, but it does not get as cold on the coast as I have experienced in a Kansas City, Independence area..
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Did you ever get snow?
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You know, we did periodically.
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Usually maybe once, twice a year you would get a little snow, but it would just dissipate as quickly as it came.So it doesn't linger like it does here.
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So does linger, well I think one time in the world church leadership council during a worship, when we were talking about things we liked to do and I mentioned that I like to shovel snow and I remember the looks of people around the table.
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So as well as, I mean Washington's a beautiful place but I really like snow so it's good.
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I live here, right?
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It's fits for you.
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It does fit.
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So in January, leaders who serve on the world church leadership council gather for a week of meetings as well.
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Then the council of 12 also meets for an additional week of meetings.
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So you'll remember like colleagues, like our apostle Carlos from Honduras and apostle Mareva from French Polynesia, they find the weather, they're difficult.
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And so they wear these heavy coats or multiple layers when they sit around the table with the world church leadership council to discuss important and often difficult church issues with their colleagues.
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So I have a question for you since I think this podcast will be released around the time of those January meetings for world church leadership council.
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Can you preview some of the issues that they might be discussing during that session?
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Well, in this January session, the presidency after a lot of conversation has made a decision that we are going to, as a full council, enter into a more intentional, um, discernment experience.
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I mean, discernment is, is always a part of what we do.
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You, you know, you as you remember, I mean, we engage in worship at the start of every meeting and, and prayer and all of that.
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But there are practices that are designed to attempt to take you deeper.
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And as podcast listeners may be fully aware in the life of the church, things are changing in the context of, of the U S and other nations in places around the world.
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So as we've wrestled with this, we know that there, t here's extreme giftedness across and on the council, but it's not just about coming together out of our own intelligence and decision making.
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It's really about coming together and as, as faithful leaders, how do we listen to where God is calling us in calling the church into the future?
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And so we've approached, um, Katie Harmon McLaughlin as the spiritual formation coordinator and uh, we are inviting retired apostle and presiding evangelists, David Brock, they are coming and serving as what we call his discernment Tarion's.
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They will be facilitating a process with the leadership council not only in January, but when we meet again in may and when we meet again in September.
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So we are truly intentional about going deeper, listening deeper, seeking to discern where God is calling community of Christ to go into the future and, and who we're called to be.
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So that's the focus.
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Excellent.
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Well, I encourage the podcast listeners to pray for the world church leaders as they gather in January for that discernment and encourage your congregations to join in that purple support as well.
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That would be greatly appreciated in the past few years.
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And during many leadership meetings, apostles and will church leadership members have talked about issues surrounding the sacrament of the Lord's Supper or often called communion.
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As a result of those discussions and input from the theology formation team and standing high council, the first presence, he recently released an eight page document that that's entitled guidelines for serving the sacrament of the Lord's Supper.
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And one topic addressed in those guidelines is about online participation in the Lord's supper.
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And I know that the first presidency and the church leaders have spent a lot of time prayerfully considering and discussing online congregations that are emerging in the life of the church.
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So what are some of the implications or issues or considerations that the first presidency identified, uh, concerning the celebrating the Lord's supper on an in an online environment?
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You know, so first as you reference the, the eight page guidelines, that document ultimately was intended not only to be informational, but to also help the church in a formational aspect to understand the significance of the sacraments in the life of the church.
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And especially then the sacrament of the Lord's supper.
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So when we were wrestling with this about the online participation, we've had this on our table for at least two to three years.
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As you remember, Linda, because it is a growing phenomenon in the life of the church, what we call this kind of virtual world and network that is occurring out there.
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And so as we were wrestling with that, part of it occurred as a result of challenging and pressing on us in our, our personal understandings about the nature of sacraments and our lack of really understanding the, the dynamics and significance of the virtual communities that were forming.
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What's important is that the sacrament in all sacraments are a communal experience.
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When you, when you stop to think about it, there is no sacrament that occurs with just one.
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There is always at least two or more.
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So the sacraments are formed around the experience of community.
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And so we found ourself really wrestling with that.
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What's it mean to experience the sacraments in a, in a virtual world when you're looking at each other through screens rather than as you and I right now are looking at each other face to face.
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That took some time for us to journey with an understand and to develop a deeper awareness and sensitivity to other generations and, and other individuals who were finding the, the value of sacred community in a virtual way than it was in a face to face, um, human life to human life.
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And so that, that was probably one of the biggest issues that we had to, we had to work through and to wrestle with the, uh, the aspect of what that would mean in terms of how the sacrament could get lived out and that experience.
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You know, the other thing is, is that sacraments involve tangible symbols in the, in the sacrament of the Lord's supper, there is the, the bread and the juice or the wine.
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Um, there's the prayers and so touch and that tangible opportunity to experience is really important.
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We know that in other sacraments, the laying on of hands and other symbols like that are important.
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So we had to also understand how, how they could experience those tangible symbols in a virtual way.
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So as we wrestled through that, as we, as we tried to step back and challenge our own assumptions and our own experiences, we, yeah, we began, as we listened in with the world church leadership council and other cultures, we began to discover that there was a way for this to occur.
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One or the other things that we had to address was World Conference Resolution 401, uh, which was passed back in 1895, but it was still in what we call it, forced in effect, meaning we still recognized it because World Conference Resolution 401 impacted and gave guidance to how the serving of the communion to the different members and who was to do that.
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That was there.
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And also in doctrine covenant section 17.
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So we had to wrestle with that because in a virtual way, if you had people in one location where there was no priest or milk Hassidic minister, what would that mean?
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Could a person serve themself?
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So there were traditions in the life of the church that we had to start stretching and trying to understand.
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And so those were some of the really, probably the more prominent implications of, u h, the online consideration that we had to deal with.
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Because people who were in these online communities wanted to have the experience of sharing in the sacrament of the Lord's supper.
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Absolutely.
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So they were pressing for leaders to give consideration to that request.
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That's right.
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And that happens frequently where it's, it's what's happening out in the life of the church that begins to challenge the presidency, to have to think about i n, in different ways, in different questions.
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And this was clearly one of t hose.
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And also those communities are very close knit even though they might not ever see themselves face to face at world conference.
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I had the opportunity to go to a dinner of people that gather online in community.
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And as I sat listening to their conversations, they were intimate conversations.
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I mean, they knew about each other's families and they knew about issues of health.
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And I was amazed that from the old tradition where we meet in the congregation how meeting online was so valuable to people who in some cases would never have the opportunity to be in a congregation because of the long distances they would take to travel to a congregation.
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And yet they had this wonderful congregation to support.
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Right.
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And, and that is, you know, I, I guess to be honest and transparent here, that was one of the issues that I had to challenge and stretch myself on because that was not part of my personal experience.
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I hadn't spent time in those kinds of communities.
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So I found myself really wrestling with how does that really form the, this close-knit faithful experience and so it wasn't until I began to place myself in those situations and began to experience some of those.
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It was through that, that I began to recognize, ah, this can happen and I needed to just as a personal disciple, but in my role in the presidency, I needed to open my mind and be aware of the different ways that the spirit brings informs community.
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Yes.
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And so in these guidelines, it provides principles that should be observed when planning and providing online participation in the Lord's supper.
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Could you share a little bit about those principles and guidelines and planning and participating in?
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So I think as, as we stated in the, the guidelines document itself, probably the number one principle that we wanted to uphold is that the experience needed to happen in real time.
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Now I want to qualify that understanding that real time when you're talking in a virtual sense that there's always a slight delay that occurs.
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But in the sense that we are all together, we're seeing each other in and being together at that common time versus me just watching a recording of a sacrament service.
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So that sense of us being together, engaging together, hearing, seeing, uh, together was an important aspect of seeing this is how in the, in the sacredness of community that we want to experience a sacrament.
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So that was probably number one.
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The second was that we wanted to say that the sacraments, the emblems itself needed to be physically present.
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So it wasn't that individuals could participate in the sacrament by watching others do it.
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The sacrament, the emblems needed to be present and available to each person.
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That is a part of that online community.
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And then that the, the ministry of the priest or melchisedec in the life of Community of Christ needed to be a part of that experience.
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Priesthood ministry that brings blessing, brings guidance, brings that support into the community, needed to be there.
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And while there may not be a priest or Melchizedek ministry at every minister at every site where somebody is joining from, if there was somebody a t p riesthood, a priesthood member that was online, then they were presiding over that, that whole community.
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And so their responsibility in terms of offering the prayers on the emblems, on behalf of the community was an important piece.
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And that there would be priesthood members that if they were present were available to serve the sacrament.
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Again, under our current practices, a p riest o r melchisedec priesthood member would be able to serve the sacrament.
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But where there was not a priesthood member, we still wanted individuals to be able to participate.
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And so they could have the emblems that had been blessed by the priesthood member, they could have the implements t o partic.
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And so those were, those were the four basic principles that we indicated were important in, in having a common experience, not only virtually, but with, with other congregations in this, in t his sacrament.
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I'm sure that's very helpful for those who have been yearning for that experience to share together online.
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And I just thought for those who have not participated on an online experience with a group of people, a community, I want to share what it looks like.
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And so many of them use what's called Zoom, which is a platform.
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We're on the screen of your computer.
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You can see the faces and actually the chair or the table where the people are seated and all across the screen, maybe eight different places and more, you can actually see people.
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So it's not like you're just sitting there and you're hearing voices or you might see one.
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In many cases you're actually seeing the people who are participating in, in that service or that community.
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So I wanted people to have a visual of, it's not, it's, you don't feel so isolated because you can actually see each other.
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Yeah.
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It's important to understand that, that that's a different experience than, than a congregation.
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Web streaming their service.
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One way out that people watch these kinds of communities.
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People are interacting together.
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Yes, they are.
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And oftentimes people, uh, when they want to speak, they're their, they're a box turns a different color or whatever and they speak, they share prayers.
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And so it really is a worshipful experience.
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And I found it amazing because I remember the discussion that we had in real church leadership council in the guidelines for serving the Lord's supper.
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It mentioned mentioned sacramental universals and then it gives Community of Christ particulars that are required and then particular practice in some congregations but not required.
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So that's really helpful in there.
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But I want you to explain the importance to differentiate between universals and particulars and then why some particulars are required and others are not required.
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Yeah.
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So this was, this was a further expansion of the presidency, not only wanting to provide administrative guidelines on the administration of the sacrament, but to help the church live more fully in to inspired counsel that has come to the church over the years.
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Again, section 158 section 162 section 163 all speaks specifically about the significance of the place of sacraments in, in enriching the life of the community.
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So part of that is how do we help, how do we help the church and disciples go deeper in the hat and understanding the elements of the sacrament are important.
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So yeah, universals.
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So universals are really the principals or the, the internal truths that, that the sacrament attempt to uphold like the love and grace of God.
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That is a universal that has lived throughout the generations of time.
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So when you begin to understand those universals like the God's desire to bless and bring wholeness, that would be a universal that we believe that the sacraments uphold that in the sacrament we've, we discovered God's self revelation and God's desire to interact and be with humanity.
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So those kind of principles and understandings form us deeper when we engage in the sacrament rather than just going through the motions.
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When you actually think about what, what's the sacrament really saying to me in my discipleship, in my relationship with God universals clearly transition, transcend time, history, cultures, languages, and while wording may change in how they get expressed, the underlying principle of those universals continue to be the same.
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And we grow in our understanding of what they mean for us in a given time and context of our life.
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The particular's actually began to be the tangible symbols that help us make sense of the unit of the universals.
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So the particulars are the symbols, the words, the actions that that really point back to the universals.
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So when we talk about the depth of God's love and grace, the particulars of the s acramental Lord supper in, in the bread and the wine we understand in reading of the gospels o f Jesus says, this is my body, remember me.
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So those, when we partake of those, it helps us draw us back into that realization of the profound l ove that God has for us.
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That every time we do that, we, we e xperience that grace that comes to us.
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So symbols help awaken us and help give tangible expression t o, t o what the universals are trying to show the words that we use.
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That's why the prayers are so important and why in the life of the church we have the prayers that we have on the sacraments, especially the sacrament of the Lord's supper is t he closest thing to liturgy that we have in the life of the church.
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But we do it over and over again.
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So those words don't just become roped, but they become deeper and deeper within us as we hear those words and we begin to stretch and ponder more what those words mean to us at any moment in our life, depending on where we're at in our journey.
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And then the actions of how we live that out, how we, how we engage in the sacrament, how we serve the sacrament.
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Those are all symbols that if we pay attention, help awaken us to the universals that contain the deep elements of God's love for us.
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So could you give an example of a particular that's required and then a particular that's not required?
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So it can help understand?
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Because traveling, if you travel internationally in particular, people do things differently.
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In other countries, like in Africa, I have never had grape juice.
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I've always had like Fanta orange juice.
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And in and in French Polynesia we have coconut milk and, and so, you know, that's different.
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And so what are the particulars and that are required and those that are, are based on, on situations, et cetera.
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So one of the particulars then would be, as you were just speaking, the sacrament of the Lord's supper needs to contain a a bread like element and a liquid element that represents, again, the bread or the, the solid substance represents the body that Jesus talked about and the liquid reflects the, the blood of Christ.
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So, but a particular that is not required is that it doesn't have to be whole wheat bread and grape juice.
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Those are traditions that had been incorporated in places in the Western world and other cultures just began to take them on until they learned that it wasn't required.
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Another one would be, and this was interesting because when we were going through this, you may remember when we started talking about particulars that were required but not required.
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It really confused some, even some of the leadership council because just out of their own traditions from different countries, one of the particulars that's required is if the, if the emblems are covered, then they need to be, we ask that they be uncovered, um, before the blessing is offered on them.
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But it is not a requirement to cover the emblems.
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And that I just loved the expressions when one, you know, you see the, um, those faces that like, Whoa, that's how we've always done it.
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Like we just treated it.
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It's always been one of the universals.
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So that's, that's a another distinction there.
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Um, if we, one of the other particular centers required, again, understanding the nature of priesthood ministry, servant ministry that a priest or melchisedec, a priesthood member would offer the, the prayers on that and that the people kneel.
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But we also have to be sensitive to that.
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Some people can't kneel because of, of of physical conditions.
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And so it, it's not so required.
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We kneel out of a sense of honor and respect and humbleness.
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But if you're not physically able to kneel, it doesn't diminish the experience and
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You're still humbly accepting.
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Exactly.
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Yeah.
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So those are some things I, some of the other particulars, let me just name these, some of the other particulars that are not required is like using a white tablecloth.
00:27:46.240 --> 00:28:08.910
I was even in a congregation once where I observed a, uh, a new priesthood member helping set up a, a communion table and, and put the, the white tablecloth upside down and a, a senior member of the priesthood there scolded the new priesthood member about putting it up, you know, upright.
00:28:09.450 --> 00:28:15.690
And it's one of those moments you think, so does that really make a difference in our sacramental experience?
00:28:15.691 --> 00:28:18.089
But those are, you know, things like that.
00:28:19.019 --> 00:28:45.630
Here's one that gets people at times that it, it is not required that priesthood members prepare the emblems, but in some cultures and traditions, that is a very sacred thing to have non p riests t ook preparing the emblems that just would not be considered at all.
00:28:46.049 --> 00:28:53.670
And yet at the same time, it is not required through our Doctrine and Covenants or world conference resolution.
00:28:53.671 --> 00:29:15.150
So there's really important things there that I think are, are helpful because it, it forces us to step back and say what is really important when we experience the sacraments and are we doing things that aren't necessary in terms of what needs to be encountered?
00:29:15.480 --> 00:29:19.619
And so we, yeah, we try to be open to those new learnings.
00:29:20.039 --> 00:29:26.099
So the sacredness, we're really focusing on what's sacred and what's tradition.
00:29:26.130 --> 00:29:26.819
Yeah.
00:29:27.700 --> 00:29:37.380
And, and I think that, and again, understanding the symbolism that's involved.
00:29:38.130 --> 00:29:55.210
I think if I, if there was anything that I would encourage our listeners to, to think about is to, to awaken even more to the symbolism of what occurs in the sacraments, in what that really means for us.
00:29:55.710 --> 00:29:57.720
Let's talk about that.
00:29:58.170 --> 00:30:15.089
So what are the, there's primary symbols and the Lord's supper, and you can share with us those primary symbols and how they form intentionally can form disciples and even communities that gather to celebrate the Lord's supper together.
00:30:16.240 --> 00:30:29.200
So again, as I've indicated bread and wine and want to make sure that we're clear here, that in Community of Christ we use unfermented grape juice or water or some other beverage.
00:30:29.529 --> 00:30:33.700
So that is our tradition and in our current understanding.
00:30:35.410 --> 00:30:48.309
So having both that, that solid substance and liquid become important because not only do we, do we see it, do we touch it when we reach out and pick it up?
00:30:49.089 --> 00:30:57.579
But we taste it and feel it in experience, in, in the swallowing, in letting it flow within us.
00:30:58.750 --> 00:31:08.140
So those become important symbols of, of, of that loving grace that begins to enter into us.
00:31:09.640 --> 00:31:21.190
And, and when we are sensitive to that, there's this tremendous moment of connection with divine that I, that I believe can happen.
00:31:21.670 --> 00:31:27.700
And I think that engaging in the sacrament calls us to understand priesthood ministry.
00:31:29.109 --> 00:31:33.490
Priesthood ministry needs to be understood first of all, as servant ministry.
00:31:33.490 --> 00:31:46.000
The priesthood are there to be the servants for the welfare of the community and to care for the welfare of the community.
00:31:46.509 --> 00:32:08.980
And so when individuals, the priesthood are preparing the sacraments, praying for the sacraments, and then making the sacraments available to the people, that is an opportunity for us in that tangible moment to recognize the gift that God gave us in the life of Christ.
00:32:10.509 --> 00:32:14.019
Christ's whole life was about servant ministry.
00:32:14.799 --> 00:32:26.829
And so it calls us to remember that we, our lives make a difference when we offer our life to the welfare of another.
00:32:27.069 --> 00:32:28.569
It does make a difference.
00:32:28.750 --> 00:32:39.319
And so when the priesthood are functioning in that role, we need to be mindful of what that means in our own life and what it calls from our own life.
00:32:40.220 --> 00:32:46.400
And then the realization that the sacrament, again calls us into community.
00:32:47.119 --> 00:32:49.880
It is never a private experience.
00:32:50.119 --> 00:32:54.619
It is always something shared in relationship with another.
00:32:55.940 --> 00:33:02.900
And in that relationship with another, we're reminded that we share in a relationship with the divine.
00:33:04.549 --> 00:33:09.230
So those kinds of symbols, again, are important aspect.
00:33:09.619 --> 00:33:23.630
But even when we think about the serving of the way that things are served, so one form is that the priesthood are served first and then they serve the community.
00:33:24.710 --> 00:33:33.589
That's a symbolism that says as priesthood, we have a responsibility to care for the sacredness and spiritualness of our own life.
00:33:34.309 --> 00:33:38.329
If we are not fed, it's difficult to go out and feed others.
00:33:38.750 --> 00:33:46.880
And so that models the importance of our need to be working in and giving time to our spiritual lives.
00:33:47.390 --> 00:33:56.210
But I also love the model of serving where priesthood will prepare the emblems and then they will go serve the people first.
00:33:56.480 --> 00:34:00.019
And then after the people have been served, they are served.
00:34:00.440 --> 00:34:13.400
When that's done, that models for us the significant role of servant leadership in ministry, that sometimes it's not just about us, it's about giving of ourself.
00:34:13.579 --> 00:34:16.789
And in return we receive and are fed.
00:34:17.750 --> 00:34:31.219
And so those kinds of experiences when, when we're invited to get out of our pews or chairs and to come to the front to replace where the sacraments are at and priesthood are standing there in their presence.
00:34:32.150 --> 00:34:43.099
It's a reminder of our action in our response and discipleship to go and to receive that God waits.
00:34:43.400 --> 00:34:58.969
God doesn't force God's self on us, but God invites us to the table and are getting up and walking and going is a symbol of our covenant response to that love and invitation.
00:34:59.960 --> 00:35:11.480
So even as we serve the communion, there's symbols that can awaken us to a deeper understanding of what the sacraments 10 and seek to offer.
00:35:12.719 --> 00:35:26.250
And I'm trying to remember in which section of the doctrine covenants, but one of my favorite images of what the Lord supper is all about is that it has the power to spiritually form.
00:35:27.480 --> 00:35:31.739
Uh, the community into the true and living expression of Jesus Christ.
00:35:32.670 --> 00:35:40.380
And for me, when I take communion, I think of that power of what can happen in the Lord's supper.
00:35:40.380 --> 00:35:50.849
F we all are intentional in going deeper as you're saying and connecting with the divine because it forms us into the true and living expression of Jesus Christ.
00:35:51.119 --> 00:35:58.170
Not just for the congregation sake but for the communities and neighborhoods in which we go are set out into.
00:35:58.340 --> 00:36:00.230
Yeah, exactly.
00:36:00.920 --> 00:36:02.900
That's ultimately what it's about.
00:36:03.980 --> 00:36:09.559
If it just stays within the sanctuary or wherever we're located, I think we've missed the value.
00:36:10.250 --> 00:36:10.579
Yeah.
00:36:11.150 --> 00:36:16.190
And so the Lord supper is, is very important to Christ mission.
00:36:17.059 --> 00:36:30.590
The first presidency is also gives in this document, additional guidance that addresses specific questions that I'm assuming that you've heard from members and from leaders throughout the church.
00:36:30.949 --> 00:36:40.519
And there are actually nine points in this additional guidance and it's, I found it fascinating to read it again, the guidance.
00:36:41.030 --> 00:36:47.780
Would you share several of those points that are shared in, in the guidance from the first presidency?
00:36:48.130 --> 00:36:48.369
Sure.
00:36:49.900 --> 00:37:05.230
So one again that I have highlighted when we are talking about particulars, but unordained members of the congregation are eligible to help prepare the sacraments.
00:37:06.099 --> 00:37:18.400
Um, so it doesn't require priesthood to prepare the sacraments out of our own discipleship offering ourself in that kind of servant ministries important.
00:37:18.610 --> 00:37:23.500
So that was one of the responses and questions that kept coming that we wanted to be clear about.
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