In today's episode Chantal Müller-Mukamurera shares her story of life and faith as part of our Fair Trade series. Chantal was born in Rwanda and became a refugee in Germany. She joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, served a full time mission, was married in the temple and had a family all before eventually finding her place in Community of Christ. Thanks for listening to Project Zion Podcast! Follow us on Facebook and Instagram! Intro and Outro music used with permi...

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Fair Trade

In today's episode Chantal Müller-Mukamurera shares her story of life and faith as part of our Fair Trade series. Chantal was born in Rwanda and became a refugee in Germany. She joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, served a full time mission, was married in the temple and had a family all before eventually finding her place in Community of Christ. 

Thanks for listening to Project Zion Podcast!
Follow us on Facebook and Instagram!


Intro and Outro music used with permission:

“For Everyone Born,” Community of Christ Sings #285. Music © 2006 Brian Mann, admin. General Board of Global Ministries t/a GBGMusik, 458 Ponce de Leon Avenue, Atlanta, GA 30308. copyright@umcmission.org

“The Trees of the Field,” Community of Christ Sings # 645, Music © 1975 Stuart Dauerman, Lillenas Publishing Company (admin. Music Services).

All music for this episode was performed by Dr. Jan Kraybill, and produced by Chad Godfrey.

NOTE: The series that make up the Project Zion Podcast explore the unique spiritual and theological gifts Community of Christ offers for today's world. Although Project Zion Podcast is a Ministry of Community of Christ. The views and opinions expressed in this episode are those speaking and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Community of Christ.

WEBVTT

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[inaudible].

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Welcome to the project science podcast.

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This podcast explores the unique spiritual and theological gifts community of Christ offers for today's world.

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Hello and welcome to the projects.

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I am podcast.

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I'm your host, Carla long.

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And today I'm speaking with someone who is very, very special to me.

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Uh, her name is Sean tall and even though she's said that I'd be able to pronounce her last name, I'm pretty sure I won't be able to.

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So I'm going to let her introduce her whole name and she's going to sing it and it's going to be absolutely beautiful.

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Um, I met first met Sean tall when I was working in Europe.

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Uh, she lives in Germany and uh, she has quite a story to tell us today and I'm so excited to hear it.

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So Shantelle thank you so much for making the effort to be on our podcast.

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I'm so excited.

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Hi.

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Hey.

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So Sean, tell, tell us a little bit about yourself.

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[inaudible]

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so I'm[inaudible] I don't need to sing it because I can do it.

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I just wanted to help you to learn it by seniors, but I can't pronounce my name.

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So[inaudible] I'm 50 years old and yeah, nearly 51 married to a wonderful passen penny the German and I have two wonderful son, Samuel and stomach in 19 and 17 and there was a dog was it?

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And the dog is the most important part, right?

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Yeah, he's not over family

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now.

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Shantelle I'm sure we're going to get into this, but you don't sound like you have a German accent to me.

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Yes.

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I was born in[inaudible].

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I'm a[inaudible] citizen and I came to Germany when I was six years old.

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My mom,

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well CR.

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Oh this is already interesting.

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So let's just jump in.

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So tell us more about growing, growing up in Rwanda and I'm moving to Germany and then let's just get started.

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Let's hear your story.

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Okay.

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My mom met a gentleman in Rwanda and so when I was six years old we moved to Germany.

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And before that time I was born in[inaudible] and then I was living short time in that year of the Republic of Congo today.

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And then when we came back to Rwanda where my grandparents granted my list and all the family, um, so my mom was in that, yeah.

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As a refugee and on her time in that time.

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So when my mom came back to Rwanda, she met my stepfather, a gentleman, and within she moved to Germany and took me as her oldest, um, child with her.

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Why am I younger?

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Brava, um, stayed with my grandma, but they came later, um, in the 80s, also Germany.

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Yeah.

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I went to school in Germany and then I'll go the part of Germany.

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I was in a Catholic school because my stepfather was a very bit strong bit, even Catholic.

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And it was, um, very important for him that, um, we, we get that time as Catholics.

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So when, when we were, uh, when he married my mom's or my siblings and I were baptized as Catholic and in Germany, I went to Catholic, um, primary school.

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What was that like to go to Catholic primary school?

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Uh, it was, it was good.

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So, um, I felt comfortable.

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I, I was, I grew up as a believing person.

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So for my mom, she, um, even when we were not baptized as teared when she was a strong VT woman, she, uh, as a woman, she was, um, a scout girl.

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So with the Catholic nuns and she learned, uh, many songs, um, faith promoting signs and you see the no and uh, the Bible.

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And so she talking all the songs and told me stories about God and to be honest and things like that.

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So I felt comfortable in that school.

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So every morning the problems that the, um, the class we would pray and um, once a month there was a sermon with all the schools.

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So I, I liked it.

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And how long did you go to that school?

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It's just, uh, from the first to the, um, fourth class and then, yeah,

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I was going to say.

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So you graduated from there?

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Um, it's just primary.

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Oh, you graduated from primary there.

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From there.

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And got it.

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So you went to like what we would probably call sixth grade or something like that.

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And then where did you go to school after that?

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Well, in Germany, in my time, we had four years.

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The first four years and then we had two years of orientation to decide where to go next.

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And then I was, um, after this two years, I went to[inaudible], I would call it[inaudible].

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[inaudible].

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Um, I, I graduated of the 10th.

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And so by this point, your German was very, very good, I'm guessing.

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So when, yeah, at the end it was good that at the beginning I didn't speak any German.

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I thought I will never learn it.

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When I heard my father speak and very fast, I thought I would never run it.

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But well, as a child, um, he'll learn because children are very true.

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They say, Oh, that's not right.

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And so they corrected me and I was very, um, I had a lot of friends and what was much in sports and so I'm very,

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okay.

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So you went to Catholic primary school and then you decided what you spent the two years of orientation deciding what you wanted to do.

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What happened after that?

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So then I went to, um, this is, um, another, another school, and then I graduated there, uh, after the 10th class.

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And then what happened?

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I'll after that.

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So that's a low, sorry.

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I wanted to um, do something with languages and I, there was a school, um, I wanted to go to, but um, it was, um, it was a translation school.

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Um, so, and that time I really liked languages, but um, this school was a business communications school and uh, I went there but they didn't put me in the class I wanted because it was, there were too much people and so they put me in another class I didn't want to.

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So I decided, um, you know, if I don't go to this class I need this school.

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And also was interested in doing something, um, in the social area.

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So during my ninth grade I had the possibility to internship and I was in a place, repented, kept people and um, I liked it and I thought maybe I won't work with handicapped people.

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And so when I didn't get the school I wanted, I went back to this, um, place and asked if I could do a one year internship because I'm in the ninth grade.

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It was just three weeks just, Oh, your attention.

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If it is for me.

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And so I could do that for one year.

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And the plan was to a school after that, um, to get to work with handicapped people.

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So[inaudible] I wanted to do something like that, but, um, Germany is very much in, um, the real Cressey.

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And when the time I involved myself about which steps to do I, I went these steps.

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But meanwhile they changed, you know, and so I did the steps.

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I was involved in the ninth grade, ninth wait to go up to move school, like some, uh, a special school school for sociology pedagogy.

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And then, um, they told me, well, now you need to have a one year school before you get to our school another.

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Yes.

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And then I did this and when I finished that, they told me, now you need to do a one year internship again because it was not the right order.

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I said, no, that's enough.

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Don't do that again.

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So, and that was the reason I orientated my journey in another way because I didn't want to lose another year because of the order of the bureaucracy.

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And so, um, I thought, what can I do else?

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What do I like?

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And I thought, I love to travel.

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Maybe I could do something, um, with traveling.

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And so I, I started, uh, training and, uh,

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okay.

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Travel agency.

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No.

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And, um, during that time I met the[inaudible]

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mama[inaudible].

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And how old were you at this point in your life when you started the travel agency?

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Um, I, was 18.

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Yes, 18.

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Oh my goodness.

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You're so young still.

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You think so at that time?

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Yeah.

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So, yeah, when I, um, met the missionaries, so that was a a time, so I had my own apartment at time and, um, I, um, started thinking about, um, the purpose of life and I had pumped in my home, um, from the Jehovah witnesses and, uh, they, they, they knocked door to door and left this conflict.

00:12:03.019 --> 00:12:14.330
And, and then I started to read it and that made me thinking that, well, I used to pray when I need something, but when I'm okay, I don't pray.

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And this, um, pamphlet and, you know, the terrible witnesses are very much into, uh, the second coming off of.

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And it makes me thinking like, well, I grew up with the faith that will show a class would come one day and, but I don't think about it very much.

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And so I, it made me thinking, so what is if Jesus Christ would come back now with you, say like, hi, I belong to you, but you don't care just when you need something.

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And so that made me a little bit reflecting over myself and thinking it's not very fair that the faith behave I have.

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So, and I decided for myself to, to pray more, not only when I need something and I thought maybe it would be helpful to have, um, a community to share this faith.

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And I thought of a motto but my own faith.

00:13:18.590 --> 00:13:24.950
So in the Catholic church, and I didn't go very often after I left my home.

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Um, I just go, went to church from time to time when there was aU mass because it was with a, with a bed and he was a m ore m odern, not, I didn't really like, u m, u h, I didn't really like the liturgy, but it was not.

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So my thing.

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And so I, I love t he modern mass with B en, but it was just f un, but I was not really in that group b ecause I went to t his from time to time.

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So I thought, and I, I was missing missing, um, the, the friendship in the church.

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And so there was no friendship because I left the group four years before because I, I was living, um, in, uh, and how is with, with you when I was vaulting, um, which were not very, very easy, but I was the only one who was, um, going to church from time to time.

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This is this, this is a part of my life.

00:14:44.419 --> 00:14:59.070
Um, so because of my father, he was a very strongly Catholic and, um, he was very, he say, so he didn't allow me to, to do a lot of things.

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And, um, he, he was today I would say he was very jealous.

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And, um, um, one day I left, I left my home by the help of the[inaudible] Carolyn[inaudible].

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So it was, it was really okay.

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So, um, it was a tough time, um, in, in my house.

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So I, I could leave my house.

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Um, it was, he was very Myland, so yeah.

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So[inaudible][inaudible] and um, it was a very tough time.

00:15:53.671 --> 00:16:08.629
So I left my home when I was partying and it's a new house that was the best time have to up the mine and tough time of my step.

00:16:10.710 --> 00:16:11.730
So, Oh my goodness.

00:16:12.210 --> 00:16:12.779
You're on your ear.

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Left your house at 14.

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That's, well, no wonder you said the 18 wasn't that young because when you've been on your own for four years, I bet it didn't really feel that young at all.

00:16:23.580 --> 00:16:24.360
That's incredible.

00:16:24.570 --> 00:16:24.870
Son tall.

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Yeah.

00:16:28.929 --> 00:16:39.159
And so that was the reason I didn't have the context, the Catholic youth anymore because so at least four years I was given these new tasks, but they will not any eating.

00:16:39.559 --> 00:17:03.250
I went to church anytime, so I took them back to my, um, my mind desire to be more close to God, um, was like, which community wants help me to make loans to practice law and not, uh, own crane in?

00:17:04.029 --> 00:17:12.670
And that was the point I thought about the scripture in the Bible, which says, um, well sneaker will find.

00:17:13.839 --> 00:17:20.170
And I thought, okay, I would like to find a church which pleases God.

00:17:21.170 --> 00:17:23.799
So I do sad that we'll see Fiddler side.

00:17:23.800 --> 00:17:29.890
And I said, God, if there was a church, um, which pleases memos, let me find it.

00:17:30.700 --> 00:17:32.410
And I promised it to be open.

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And after this prayer, I, it was a very, um, um, strong moment when I read this, I, I could feel the presence of God.

00:17:44.390 --> 00:17:54.720
And it was, um, there was a connection from my heart and I thought, this is a very important step in, I know now.

00:17:54.721 --> 00:17:58.740
And, and I, I was open from that day on.

00:18:00.000 --> 00:18:06.690
I wanted to find out if, if God would show me church, which pleases him most.

00:18:09.119 --> 00:18:15.599
And so I went to work and one day I came back by train from[inaudible] to amygdala.

00:18:15.660 --> 00:18:24.269
My, my office was in Braman and I saw a small emission of these with that name.

00:18:24.690 --> 00:18:29.460
Tex and I went into the train and the train was full.

00:18:29.461 --> 00:18:41.039
That day was a Friday and Friday is when people go home, um, who come to work in big cities and the soldiers went home.

00:18:41.040 --> 00:18:56.849
And so it was so full and I passed the section with the, the places were empty when I thought maybe it's reserved and I pass that the train was full and this passage was empty.

00:18:57.269 --> 00:18:59.279
But Peter came and it pushed me back.

00:18:59.280 --> 00:19:02.220
And so I thought, okay, I go into this section.

00:19:03.269 --> 00:19:10.950
And I went, I went into this section set down and then one elder came into that room as well.

00:19:12.029 --> 00:19:13.589
And I saw the name tech.

00:19:13.589 --> 00:19:25.019
And I thought, this is a church guy because some years before, maybe one year, um, they knocked door to door at my house to mission.

00:19:25.619 --> 00:19:30.569
And I had a good conversation with them, but was afraid to cause of sectarian.

00:19:30.570 --> 00:19:46.829
And I told my parents that I meeting some people who talk about Bible and then my stepfather said, well, um, who I have these people and then, and are those, are they, do you have a witness?

00:19:46.830 --> 00:19:47.400
I didn't know.

00:19:48.119 --> 00:19:57.319
And then he said, mom's, I said, that might be because they had a book of prom on and wanted to talk about what, that wasn't even a fan Mo, I just want to talk about the Bible.

00:19:59.190 --> 00:20:07.230
And so he said, ABI capital, this is these acid Syrians and they are very dangerous.

00:20:08.250 --> 00:20:11.609
That's always a little bit afraid that you have thought.

00:20:11.640 --> 00:20:25.019
And I had a good friend in my school, he was uh, in the three church and I told him, I said, school day, do you know that the Bible every well isn't it?

00:20:26.490 --> 00:20:29.549
And I said, and your dad as well?

00:20:29.550 --> 00:20:33.690
He said, yes, I would like to invite you to my house.

00:20:33.691 --> 00:20:39.539
There are two missionaries come into my house and I don't want to meet with them anymore.

00:20:39.720 --> 00:20:42.900
And I don't know how to tell them, let's come again.

00:20:44.130 --> 00:20:47.809
Then, uh, we said, okay, I can come.

00:20:48.009 --> 00:20:50.190
And I said, could you bring up that as well?

00:20:50.690 --> 00:20:51.140
Okay.

00:20:51.950 --> 00:21:03.619
And so they came and we had this appointment with news news and they were very happy and I brought two people mold and then they said, and then we talk.

00:21:03.621 --> 00:21:05.150
It was a nice conversation.

00:21:05.359 --> 00:21:07.279
They were very nice.

00:21:07.910 --> 00:21:22.549
And then they invited the church and then we'll this, that, that well, you have your faith and sometimes has her faith and we have a, so I don't want you to come again, just leave her alone.

00:21:23.930 --> 00:21:29.359
Like I was a little bit of a shame, but this is what I wanted.

00:21:30.349 --> 00:21:33.650
And then they said, okay, and that was it.

00:21:33.829 --> 00:21:34.880
They didn't come again.

00:21:35.329 --> 00:21:35.690
Yeah.

00:21:36.710 --> 00:21:52.339
And so now one in eight, I'm sitting in this train and this elbow and I, I remembered that, um, I was ever, this is shame that I send them away, but I thought it's, it's cool that they had been bottled.

00:21:52.789 --> 00:21:53.119
Yeah.

00:21:53.630 --> 00:21:57.950
And then I said, after my pray out, maybe got one to show me something.

00:21:58.579 --> 00:21:59.720
I hope he would talk to me.

00:21:59.721 --> 00:22:02.180
I would like to listen again.

00:22:02.309 --> 00:22:11.119
But now this time I want you to, Oh, and so, and I thought, please talk to me that, well, what are you driving to?

00:22:11.450 --> 00:22:13.279
I was like, I'm going to diamond most.

00:22:13.670 --> 00:22:16.009
And it was just 15 minutes to go.

00:22:16.099 --> 00:22:17.960
I said, and you had a mission.

00:22:17.990 --> 00:22:23.839
And he said, elder, you know, and then I said, yeah, I met some, uh, and year ago.

00:22:23.840 --> 00:22:24.920
And so fine.

00:22:25.519 --> 00:22:29.089
Then they said, are you interested to, to talk?

00:22:29.119 --> 00:22:29.660
And I said, yeah.

00:22:30.440 --> 00:22:34.759
And then I gave my telephone number and the the same evening they call.

00:22:34.829 --> 00:22:37.039
So I met, uh, missionaries.

00:22:38.059 --> 00:22:42.500
And this time I was open and I listened very different.

00:22:42.680 --> 00:22:55.009
So the first time, and uh, when they told me, I was very amazed because, um, it was something like, Hmm, he's, he wasn't the same situation like me.

00:22:55.460 --> 00:22:56.539
He was searching.

00:22:57.380 --> 00:23:10.910
So that, that was something that really got me and the most important thing youth, like I thought God gave me an answer because the stereo tells us no for something.

00:23:10.911 --> 00:23:26.720
The Navy, I mean, he, he said that, um, uh, after he spray out that he, um, saw God and he was, cause that really impressed me because it looked like miracles can happen.

00:23:27.109 --> 00:23:27.529
Yeah.

00:23:28.009 --> 00:23:37.910
Because it wasn't another cause for me that, uh, God answered my play on this, uh, in this, um, in this foam it happened.

00:23:38.539 --> 00:23:47.150
And so, um, even though, um, it was a miracle, it took a time for me to convert.

00:23:49.519 --> 00:23:53.299
Um, I had a friend and that time we met them.

00:23:54.589 --> 00:24:03.380
Um, I met him in the school I went to for the training and he was also very open to revision then.

00:24:03.381 --> 00:24:11.599
So we were taught together and I think it was because of him that, um, I converted at time.

00:24:11.690 --> 00:24:23.269
So, um, through my job I had to interrupt, um, the missionary connection and when to create a Greek.

00:24:24.559 --> 00:24:31.640
And, uh, in that time I read all the pamphlets about, um, Joseph Smith what happened and yeah.

00:24:32.990 --> 00:24:37.819
Um, that was also very mind blowing for me what happened to him.

00:24:38.509 --> 00:24:45.769
But I also talked to people like there was a professor who, no, no, no, he, no, he changed the professor.

00:24:46.339 --> 00:24:53.839
He told me, um, things about the moves and that they have death penalty.

00:24:53.839 --> 00:25:05.690
You, Utah and Alex, like, uh, I was an activist in the 80s for, and this a national that again, um, death penalty.

00:25:05.691 --> 00:25:09.380
You met me when I come home.

00:25:10.549 --> 00:25:23.299
And so when I came home from treat, after this were a wig, my, the missionaries met my boyfriend and they prepared him to, um, to be bedtime.

00:25:23.300 --> 00:25:26.990
So I came home in his head and he said, Oh, I want you to do that Texas wax.

00:25:27.740 --> 00:25:32.930
I thought if we do that together, like why do we want to do that ties.

00:25:33.500 --> 00:25:54.349
Um, and so the thing is with me, they gave us things to read and I was very busy with work and with hobbies and, and, and, um, so I didn't really read the things they gave us and to it out.

00:25:55.369 --> 00:25:59.839
And even though I, and I came back with all these questions, I say, isn't it true that you have?

00:26:02.839 --> 00:26:05.720
And they said that I said, no, this is not okay.

00:26:05.721 --> 00:26:09.589
And I had a lot of questions also in the moment.

00:26:09.890 --> 00:26:22.910
So the thing that, um, it was so mad oriented, so no, no woman, uh, um, always, um, about, it was a male on mentee.

00:26:24.109 --> 00:26:36.680
And so, um, even though I had this question, but my boyfriend wanted to get that type and I asked myself, what made you to do this decision?

00:26:37.640 --> 00:26:44.670
The thing is with them, the church, what I see today is, um, you

00:26:45.420 --> 00:26:48.420
need to have the desire to do that.

00:26:49.079 --> 00:27:02.970
So I thought, I want to find out if it's really true, like initially say that I need to play about it and I want to read all this stuff and really ask God.

00:27:05.130 --> 00:27:09.599
And then I, but they have some, sometimes late.

00:27:10.170 --> 00:27:23.130
And I went to work with the book of moment and all the pamphlets and thought, okay, I, we read in the train and anytime I have, I will read my break, I will read.

00:27:24.269 --> 00:27:32.789
And so it was a Saturday I went to work and this Saturday, um, I, it was not my part to, to work.

00:27:32.849 --> 00:27:41.190
I didn't need to work every Saturday, but because of my vacation on time, it was not vacation.

00:27:41.250 --> 00:27:41.819
It was work.

00:27:43.500 --> 00:27:50.609
And the time, uh, it's, um, I thought it's my plan to, to work.

00:27:50.611 --> 00:27:54.480
That Saturday there was another training we changed.

00:27:55.319 --> 00:27:57.720
And so, um, it was not my part.

00:27:57.721 --> 00:28:00.809
So I went there and she said, no, you're not supposed to work today.

00:28:01.509 --> 00:28:02.849
Okay, no problem.

00:28:02.940 --> 00:28:04.349
I can go.

00:28:05.009 --> 00:28:29.970
So I have, I have had free time and now, and the thing is in the morning I prayed and said to God that, um, that he should give me time to read because, um, I told him, I really don't find the time to read and maybe I'm organizing myself well enough, please help me to find time to read and now I go to work and, and don't need to work.

00:28:29.971 --> 00:28:31.529
And I said, Oh God, thank you.

00:28:31.799 --> 00:28:32.579
No, I have time.

00:28:33.240 --> 00:28:47.640
And um, I went to the, um, Liza river, it was close to my work and set there, very, uh, on a bang, very lonely place.

00:28:48.420 --> 00:28:50.609
And it was a magic thing.

00:28:50.611 --> 00:28:55.170
And I say, so the rates were in the sea, in the river.

00:28:55.890 --> 00:28:59.970
I felt blessed and uh, thank you God that he gave me time.

00:28:59.971 --> 00:29:02.180
And that is, it is so beautiful today.

00:29:02.670 --> 00:29:11.700
I sat the whole day there and I had an appointment after my work with, um, a friend who wanted to do some music together.

00:29:12.390 --> 00:29:17.460
And, um, we lived close to my, um, wicking place.

00:29:18.569 --> 00:29:25.829
And, um, but I sat there the whole day and forgot the time I was leaving and praying.

00:29:26.009 --> 00:29:35.579
And the pamphlet was the pamphlets I had with questions and in scriptures and the Bible and the book of Mormon, I compat.

00:29:35.580 --> 00:29:44.289
And from time to time some people came and sat by me and I talked to them and they were also answers to my questions.

00:29:44.290 --> 00:29:49.210
So it was a very magical day and the things were the complex.

00:29:49.299 --> 00:29:57.309
You go for the question and then he says at the end, what shall you do?

00:29:58.210 --> 00:30:01.509
And the answer is, it was in Alma somewhere.

00:30:02.359 --> 00:30:19.990
It said, is it just no desire to[inaudible] with the, with the green, um, and to, to, to help the sick and put so far, what do you have against that ties?

00:30:20.440 --> 00:30:23.500
And this is something I really was into.

00:30:23.700 --> 00:30:28.119
I, I, I love to help people and to listen.

00:30:28.121 --> 00:30:31.119
And that got me this, this clip should go off me.

00:30:31.690 --> 00:30:36.430
And, um, I, I thought, okay, I want to do that ties as well.

00:30:36.730 --> 00:30:37.569
This is how it worked.

00:30:37.570 --> 00:30:41.980
And I really felt this, this is very, very strong that day.

00:30:41.980 --> 00:30:44.380
And yeah.

00:30:44.490 --> 00:30:51.759
And then I went very late to my appointment and told him, Hey, I will be bad ties tomorrow.

00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:55.329
And he tried to tell me, wow, this is bullshit.

00:30:55.359 --> 00:31:05.559
And I have a uncola, he's a pretty, he's been, he had many, he had sex with many women.

00:31:05.559 --> 00:31:08.289
And so my friend came from Canada.

00:31:08.290 --> 00:31:08.650
Rude.

00:31:09.700 --> 00:31:13.000
And, um, yeah, I said no.

00:31:13.000 --> 00:31:16.779
Anyway, I want to be, I if you like, you can come to my baptism as well.

00:31:17.880 --> 00:31:23.140
And the thing is the vet tourism, uh, of my boyfriend was the next day.

00:31:24.069 --> 00:31:29.930
And maybe that was the reason I wanted to, um, to find out what happened.

00:31:30.529 --> 00:31:38.769
And maybe I had the desire to do that type of, well, so I was open to it and through these experiences I was ready.

00:31:39.730 --> 00:31:46.359
And then I called the missionaries and I said, Hey, listen, I, um, read the whole day and I want you to baptize tomorrow.

00:31:48.009 --> 00:31:48.339
Yeah.

00:31:48.730 --> 00:32:01.539
And so I, I had to have, uh, in the morning, some last lecture and, um, and then in the afternoon I was baptized, my boyfriend.

00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:03.410
Oh, wow.

00:32:04.259 --> 00:32:06.269
So Sean, tell, let me stop you just for a second.

00:32:06.299 --> 00:32:14.380
What, um, what, what did your family and friends think about, um, you getting baptized into the LDS church?

00:32:15.420 --> 00:32:15.420
Yeah.

00:32:15.819 --> 00:32:16.299
Yeah.

00:32:16.300 --> 00:32:27.069
So my, my, my stepfather was not happy at all cook because we do a very Catholic.

00:32:27.070 --> 00:32:29.829
And my mom also said, no, don't do that.

00:32:30.430 --> 00:32:45.349
When I met the mission of these already, in that time, she invited a priest, uh, to come to talk to him until the missionaries, not to, to, to be involved with them.

00:32:46.099 --> 00:32:48.410
But, uh, I said, okay, you can come.

00:32:48.950 --> 00:32:50.150
But he didn't come.

00:32:50.720 --> 00:32:51.079
Yeah.

00:32:52.430 --> 00:33:06.470
And so she, she really tried hard, um, to, not that I don't go this way with the missionary, so, but, uh, I was old enough, um, so I just did it.

00:33:07.490 --> 00:33:09.619
My parents were not there.

00:33:09.650 --> 00:33:11.539
So I was baptized with my boyfriend.

00:33:11.930 --> 00:33:13.670
My friends didn't know about it.

00:33:14.329 --> 00:33:23.690
So, um, when I met a good friend of mine after nuns, they didn't see each other because of the work.

00:33:23.691 --> 00:33:27.859
You know, I worked in Braman and she worked in diamond hustle.

00:33:27.859 --> 00:33:39.559
I didn't work any anyway, you don't have, um, this, um, connection to your friends anymore when you start working in a different city so you don't see each other.

00:33:39.609 --> 00:33:45.440
And I, I also had a job, uh, to my, um, work.

00:33:45.470 --> 00:33:52.069
I worked in a fitness center because the money was not enough and Hartman.

00:33:52.070 --> 00:33:55.730
So from the money of the fitness center I could buy food.

00:33:55.730 --> 00:34:00.170
And so I was very busy, so I didn't have really time with my friends.

00:34:00.349 --> 00:34:08.599
Once I met a friend of mine I didn't see for months and she saw me and she said, wow, you look so happy.

00:34:08.601 --> 00:34:09.679
What happened to you?

00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:12.409
And you know, it was just such a visionary.

00:34:13.190 --> 00:34:24.800
Well, I'm probably going into the church of Jesus Christ and I wanted to tell her everything and, and, and pay through a book of home on and everything.

00:34:24.800 --> 00:34:26.719
So I was really into that.

00:34:27.980 --> 00:34:32.090
Every, any friend I, I met, I was telling them about it.

00:34:33.019 --> 00:34:34.010
And that's the thing.

00:34:34.460 --> 00:34:47.599
So when I, um, uh, get my work and my break time, I took a book of mama and I was in the pot and was reading, and then I was talking to people and then I always gave him my book.

00:34:48.170 --> 00:34:49.639
So I don't know how it came.

00:34:49.670 --> 00:34:50.929
I was such a missionary.

00:34:50.931 --> 00:34:57.829
I was like, it always came that I talked to people and then, and then, um, Oh, you can have my book.

00:34:57.831 --> 00:34:58.579
It's maybe good.

00:34:58.820 --> 00:35:04.250
And then I had to get another book for me and I always gave away my own book.

00:35:05.449 --> 00:35:12.940
And that was the time I thought, ah, it was, it would be so good to have the whole day time to the mission.

00:35:15.320 --> 00:35:23.300
So, um, then this is, this is what happens when you don't, when you're young.

00:35:23.750 --> 00:35:26.150
So the missionaries in that time were my age.

00:35:27.289 --> 00:35:48.510
And, um, so you, you have the desire to do the same now I was like, Oh, it's such a miracle that I've found this church and, um, maybe there is someone like me was searching and I would like to do, um, the same opportunity to the person and so yeah.

00:35:48.809 --> 00:35:53.309
And I didn't feel, um, so I changed my mind.

00:35:53.311 --> 00:36:17.190
I would like more to be more honest to who play moral, to be low in the scriptures and, and then, uh, so at work, um, and I had the word of wisdom that was, I mean I was not someone who drank a lot and I didn't smoke smoke.

00:36:17.809 --> 00:36:24.329
He is, I stopped that when years before, but like coffee, you know, and drink coffee.

00:36:24.331 --> 00:36:27.269
And in my work I stopped making coffee.

00:36:29.070 --> 00:36:34.889
Normally sometime I just sit up and cook coffee.

00:36:35.190 --> 00:36:35.579
Yeah.

00:36:36.510 --> 00:36:43.139
And then now I didn't do it because I didn't do it for myself.

00:36:43.141 --> 00:36:46.710
So when my colleague say, Oh, what's about coffee?

00:36:47.099 --> 00:36:47.639
Okay.

00:36:47.730 --> 00:36:52.349
Then I did it, but I didn't do it anymore from me, from my side.

00:36:52.351 --> 00:36:58.619
So sometimes when people were talking, uh, to my colleagues, I just brought some coffee.

00:36:58.621 --> 00:36:59.880
I didn't do that anymore.

00:37:00.210 --> 00:37:00.960
So crazy.

00:37:01.230 --> 00:37:05.099
Well, giving up coffee for a German is a very, very big deal.

00:37:05.579 --> 00:37:06.300
Very big.

00:37:06.829 --> 00:37:07.820
Yeah, it is.

00:37:09.170 --> 00:37:09.440
Yeah.

00:37:09.440 --> 00:37:14.059
And my, my boss, he liked black tea but he didn't care.

00:37:14.090 --> 00:37:21.889
So I started to cook cocaine and then he always said, Oh, what's that?

00:37:22.880 --> 00:37:29.650
Well, so if he doesn't say exactly he wants black tea, you do a different look.

00:37:29.650 --> 00:37:30.110
Crazy.

00:37:30.110 --> 00:37:30.440
Yeah.

00:37:32.840 --> 00:37:33.920
It is a little crazy.

00:37:33.920 --> 00:37:34.400
You're right.

00:37:35.789 --> 00:38:02.739
And well so and um, yeah and, and the other thing is, um, I didn't feel very comfortable in that work and long because um, yeah, it was a lot of not if you, if you go this way, look, there was a time, um, I also started to do fasting there.

00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:22.679
Normally you, you do pray and fast the first Sunday of first weekend in the month and um, I was so into it that I learned, okay, if you have something special you can pray for, you can fast so you can do it not only once a month.

00:38:23.190 --> 00:38:40.539
And so I started fasting because like my boyfriend, he started to have, he was very quick in the convert[inaudible] but it was more, um, so he was more friends with two of the elders than the con conversion.

00:38:41.489 --> 00:38:47.880
And then very quickly you wanted here does it desire like to drink beer.

00:38:47.880 --> 00:38:56.489
And so, and I was very, um, I, I thought I need to pray and fast for days.

00:38:56.490 --> 00:39:06.809
And so I prayed and fasted in the weeks and one day I was fasting and, um, we had a presentation in the office.

00:39:08.219 --> 00:39:08.219
Mmm.

00:39:08.340 --> 00:39:09.150
Mmm.

00:39:10.309 --> 00:39:17.969
And, uh, it was, um, a travel agency, which trains agencies.

00:39:18.239 --> 00:39:18.570
Yeah.

00:39:19.199 --> 00:39:26.250
So, and there was a lady from Austria, she came and she brought some wine and she brought some,

00:39:27.400 --> 00:39:29.320
um, some, uh,

00:39:30.219 --> 00:39:40.690
delicious food so that we have the presentation on the computers and, um, have some line and, and food.

00:39:41.650 --> 00:39:42.699
And I was fasting.

00:39:43.579 --> 00:39:46.119
So then she asked, well, who is drinking wine?

00:39:46.599 --> 00:39:53.409
And then my colleague said,[inaudible] because we were on the road, who was drinking wine when we had events.

00:39:54.340 --> 00:39:57.070
And I said, no, no, I don't want, um, I just want water.

00:39:57.670 --> 00:40:01.570
And then she said it's a weird and the last time, what, what's wrong with you?

00:40:04.269 --> 00:40:07.360
And then not only that, I didn't drink any wine.

00:40:07.389 --> 00:40:11.469
I didn't want, no, I didn't say what, nothing I didn't want because I was fasting.

00:40:12.230 --> 00:40:15.070
So, um, I didn't eat and I didn't drink.

00:40:15.969 --> 00:40:15.969
Yeah.

00:40:16.000 --> 00:40:18.699
Because it was my, I was so weird.

00:40:20.840 --> 00:40:21.380
Yeah.

00:40:21.679 --> 00:40:31.820
And um, and so the relationship to my colleagues was a little bit complicated to my behavior.

00:40:32.480 --> 00:40:32.780
Yeah.

00:40:33.079 --> 00:40:42.170
Cause I was so craving and I didn't feel you feel competent and I wanted to have more time to do so.

00:40:43.699 --> 00:40:58.130
Um, then we had, uh, some w we had a 70 home evening once a week with a sanity because I didn't have any in the church.

00:40:58.760 --> 00:41:00.559
And uh, my friend either.

00:41:00.619 --> 00:41:08.809
So we met with, uh, with, with a CAPA with no children and we met once a week to have the[inaudible].

00:41:09.420 --> 00:41:14.030
We read the scriptures and had some, uh, food.

00:41:15.619 --> 00:41:28.849
And so they set like something, uh, emission is a good preparation for a marriage because you learn stills, you can meet as a couple.

00:41:30.070 --> 00:41:32.619
And I thought it would be great.

00:41:33.530 --> 00:41:37.670
And I said, so, uh, to my boyfriend, would you like to serve a mission?

00:41:40.400 --> 00:41:41.989
And you say, no, I'm too old.

00:41:41.990 --> 00:41:44.239
So he was already 25.

00:41:45.309 --> 00:41:45.610
Okay.

00:41:45.880 --> 00:41:51.250
And then, um, and I ask people, is it too old to go on this?

00:41:53.650 --> 00:41:58.989
People say no sometimes though the people and even more than 25.

00:42:00.340 --> 00:42:08.949
And then I told him once, because I was so much in missionary work, I told him, that's what you think.

00:42:09.070 --> 00:42:11.980
If I go to mission, what do you wait for me?

00:42:13.119 --> 00:42:17.679
And then he said, well, sure thing.

00:42:17.710 --> 00:42:18.969
So, okay.

00:42:20.230 --> 00:42:34.210
And then I was so excited I go to, so the mission and um, but for girls, um, it was not necessarily to serve a mission if you have a partner.

00:42:34.480 --> 00:42:37.869
So the most important thing was to get married.

00:42:39.159 --> 00:42:41.199
Um, and so my Bishop said, how are you doing?

00:42:41.300 --> 00:42:45.610
You need to go, you don't need to go except said that I want to.

00:42:46.960 --> 00:42:56.860
And then, um, we had these, um, uh, if you need it at the cook inlet at blessing.

00:42:57.159 --> 00:43:02.019
And then I asked one of the missionaries, I said, well, could you give me a blessing?

00:43:02.021 --> 00:43:05.199
I want you to know, I'm kind of skeptical.

00:43:05.739 --> 00:43:10.599
I would like to go to a mission, so I'd want to have a blessing.

00:43:10.699 --> 00:43:11.920
I've got things about that.

00:43:12.309 --> 00:43:16.699
And this Ella gave me this blessing and said, you won't be up such a great mission.

00:43:17.360 --> 00:43:18.730
Knowing God is so thankful.

00:43:20.619 --> 00:43:21.610
That was my blessing.

00:43:21.610 --> 00:43:21.880
Yeah.

00:43:22.420 --> 00:43:24.579
And that was like, yeah, let's go.

00:43:24.820 --> 00:43:32.079
And when, then when my Bishop said, well, you don't need to, I said, well, I just need the last thing and I, I should go.

00:43:32.679 --> 00:43:35.980
Well, when the blessing says should go.

00:43:36.849 --> 00:43:44.860
So, um, then my boyfriend said, well, um, then, then I would go, I was at admission as well.

00:43:46.969 --> 00:43:47.570
Yeah.

00:43:48.530 --> 00:43:51.860
He was supposed to go short after me.

00:43:53.079 --> 00:44:01.719
So the MTC and then I stopped in Missouri there Munich mission from humble mission.

00:44:02.500 --> 00:44:02.500
Yeah.

00:44:02.809 --> 00:44:05.300
And my boyfriend never showed up.

00:44:06.230 --> 00:44:18.440
So when I was gone, um, he had something with the girl and he was not allowed to go on a mission anymore and he even got the extra mutated.

00:44:19.369 --> 00:44:22.670
And I didn't know about that till my first city.

00:44:22.670 --> 00:44:24.800
I was surprised I didn't get any of that.

00:44:26.690 --> 00:44:32.070
But once you sent me a letter talking, what happened, sorry.

00:44:32.070 --> 00:44:35.369
And then I come back.

00:44:35.371 --> 00:44:40.889
And so yeah, that's my mission was a very, very good experience.

00:44:42.690 --> 00:44:49.230
Um, I was out, I was very sad cause because we wanted to get married them come back.

00:44:49.739 --> 00:44:56.429
So I thought he is the one and we just gave our time to God and then can have a happy marriage.

00:44:56.969 --> 00:45:05.460
But um, yeah, so the first, the first few weeks I was um, a man, I was very upset and I got a blessing as well.

00:45:07.170 --> 00:45:12.989
But, uh, I concentrated on my, my mission was, it was a good experience.

00:45:14.670 --> 00:45:15.659
It sounds like it was.

00:45:15.661 --> 00:45:19.440
I almost always hear returning missionaries talk about what a good experience it was.

00:45:19.530 --> 00:45:22.949
Well, it's either an excellent experience or a horrible experience.

00:45:23.099 --> 00:45:23.429
One of the two.

00:45:23.431 --> 00:45:31.139
There's rarely one in the middle where it's like, ah, it was okay, but I'm glad you had a good experience even though was

00:45:32.820 --> 00:45:33.170
good.

00:45:33.170 --> 00:45:53.630
So when you grew up in the church, but as a convert, it's something very different because you have different experience, you have experience more miracles and um, Julie, you're more open to things I think.

00:45:53.630 --> 00:45:54.260
I don't know.

00:45:54.289 --> 00:46:08.289
So I had a lot of miracles and probably my mission, so crayon, which were answered and psych words, but I had companions like who I want to companion.

00:46:08.360 --> 00:46:13.690
She was not on a mission off by her decision and you could see that.

00:46:13.780 --> 00:46:21.250
So she really didn't want to work and I was very mad, said, well, you don't want to look, just go home.

00:46:21.460 --> 00:46:23.230
Why, why are we wasting my time?

00:46:24.639 --> 00:46:44.320
But, um, this is, uh, the mission also was something to learn, really, to learn to be humble and to, to, to allow, because Lil, you know, 24 hours with a companion and then you already learned skills, you need the marriage as well.

00:46:45.949 --> 00:46:46.340
Oh yeah.

00:46:46.340 --> 00:46:47.539
I haven't thought of it like that.

00:46:47.541 --> 00:46:49.579
Being that close to someone for that long.

00:46:49.581 --> 00:46:54.019
I bet you do learn a lot of good communication skills.

00:46:54.050 --> 00:46:54.650
That's awesome.

00:46:55.250 --> 00:46:55.519
Yeah.

00:46:56.869 --> 00:46:59.420
So how old were you by this point when you returned from your mission?

00:47:01.250 --> 00:47:03.800
Oh, okay.

00:47:05.480 --> 00:47:05.480
[inaudible]

00:47:06.739 --> 00:47:07.039
no.

00:47:08.929 --> 00:47:08.929
[inaudible]

00:47:10.079 --> 00:47:10.409
yeah.

00:47:11.010 --> 00:47:15.900
And the thing is my mission and hemming.

00:47:16.320 --> 00:47:16.320
Yeah.

00:47:16.619 --> 00:47:18.869
So I didn't tell something about any,

00:47:19.420 --> 00:47:21.869
I know, I'm so excited to hear about how you met Henny.

00:47:24.030 --> 00:47:40.230
So, Hey, um, was a state commissioner and the, I think the second, the second, um, discussion with the missionaries, they brought him to my house as a, to work to support the missionary.

00:47:41.489 --> 00:47:58.170
And he was so excited about the church and everything, but I was in the beginning was my[inaudible] the missionaries news to ask you in the second discussion, uh, if you have not not asked, but they tell you to get that ties.

00:47:58.380 --> 00:47:58.739
Yeah.

00:47:58.920 --> 00:48:01.289
Where'd you, where'd you get that size?

00:48:02.280 --> 00:48:05.039
And they did that on the second discussion.

00:48:05.099 --> 00:48:08.340
And Henny was part of a day.

00:48:09.000 --> 00:48:11.369
And then as it, yeah, we would be baptized.

00:48:12.300 --> 00:48:14.610
And I said, no, I'm already baptized.

00:48:15.570 --> 00:48:28.980
And um, they tried to tell me about the decision, what to the probate is that it's not necessarily said no, I was not a baby when I was baptized.

00:48:30.630 --> 00:48:35.969
And, um, so, and Henning was so excited and say, Oh, this should be something cool.

00:48:37.500 --> 00:48:41.010
And, um, I thought, who is this guy?

00:48:41.090 --> 00:48:44.250
And then he didn't do this, then I don't want to be baptized.

00:48:45.090 --> 00:48:47.010
So that was the first meeting with Henning.

00:48:48.030 --> 00:48:59.670
I said, I thought he's weird, but, um, later on something happened, um, before my mission.

00:49:00.090 --> 00:49:04.860
So I went to sir it's mission to Rochester.

00:49:06.030 --> 00:49:11.519
And, um, before he went on his mission needed to go through the temple.

00:49:11.909 --> 00:49:18.239
And I met him, uh, at the, at the station when he was on the way to work.

00:49:20.309 --> 00:49:22.500
And I don't, I don't remember.

00:49:24.300 --> 00:49:25.170
Uh, no, no.

00:49:25.170 --> 00:49:26.639
That something happened before.

00:49:26.969 --> 00:49:31.889
Like, so why I was in Romanda tending said one.

00:49:32.969 --> 00:49:34.949
Um, Oh, I'm so excited.

00:49:35.260 --> 00:49:38.909
I'm going to get my patriarchal blessing.

00:49:40.019 --> 00:49:50.610
I said, and I was, um, very, uh, I wanted to know everything about the church because I, I wanted to absorb everything.

00:49:51.449 --> 00:49:51.929
Cool.

00:49:52.050 --> 00:49:54.960
You're getting your blessing when you come back.

00:49:54.969 --> 00:49:56.760
You need to tell me about your blessing.

00:49:57.179 --> 00:49:57.719
He said, no.

00:49:57.721 --> 00:49:58.679
Okay, I want to do that.

00:49:59.550 --> 00:50:08.159
And so week later he had his blessing adding by the way it had of elephant and I had my boyfriend.

00:50:08.161 --> 00:50:16.710
So, but when he um, came back from his blessing, I asked him, Hey honey, you want me to tell you about your patriarchal blessing?

00:50:17.400 --> 00:50:22.590
And he was a little bit, um, yeah, a little bit unconfident.

00:50:22.619 --> 00:50:26.849
I said, well, it's very personal bot.

00:50:27.199 --> 00:50:29.690
I promise to tell you about it.

00:50:29.690 --> 00:50:31.760
So I would tell you that not ever.

00:50:32.750 --> 00:50:33.710
I said, yeah, go, go.

00:50:33.920 --> 00:50:34.369
I'm gone.

00:50:35.090 --> 00:50:48.679
And then he was telling some things about his blessings and then he said something about the girl he would marry and then it hits me from the top of my head through my body.

00:50:50.099 --> 00:50:53.630
And then I stopped, was like, what was that?

00:50:54.619 --> 00:50:57.260
No, it's not me.

00:50:58.909 --> 00:51:04.400
And then he said, why did you want to know everything?

00:51:04.400 --> 00:51:05.929
I said, it's enough now.

00:51:06.230 --> 00:51:07.130
It's enough.

00:51:07.250 --> 00:51:11.630
And I thought, I hope he didn't recognize that I felt this.

00:51:11.630 --> 00:51:11.929
Yeah.

00:51:13.880 --> 00:51:21.679
So that was what happens with him and Ben when, before he went to the 10th and then I met him on the station.

00:51:21.699 --> 00:51:23.119
It was something magic.

00:51:23.210 --> 00:51:26.989
And as I said, why do I lose him now to tempo?

00:51:27.289 --> 00:51:31.699
And I was very jealous because I wanted to go from the 10th to going on him.

00:51:32.480 --> 00:51:38.269
And so I didn't want to read heading every time because that was weird.

00:51:38.271 --> 00:51:43.550
And I was with my boyfriend and I, it was a weird experience.

00:51:44.480 --> 00:51:54.710
And yet, now to go back to my mission, what happened with my boyfriend and then, and before the end of my mission, I was very afraid to go home.

00:51:57.739 --> 00:52:04.730
And then I, I prayed one night, it was in my, um, very last city.

00:52:05.539 --> 00:52:12.079
I was kneeling and praying during the night where my companion was sleeping and I talked to God.

00:52:12.081 --> 00:52:15.469
I said, God, I trusted you.

00:52:15.471 --> 00:52:21.800
I gave you my time and now you, why didn't you take care of my boy?

00:52:22.550 --> 00:52:25.010
No, what am I going to do when I go home?

00:52:26.309 --> 00:52:29.030
What, what, what, what will happen?

00:52:29.719 --> 00:52:38.150
And then I went to sleep and in the middle of the night, so I just heard a voice saying, tanning Malala.

00:52:38.539 --> 00:52:39.409
I was shocked.

00:52:41.639 --> 00:52:45.170
I looked to my companion if she heard it as well.

00:52:45.230 --> 00:52:45.530
Yeah.

00:52:45.949 --> 00:52:48.889
And that was something that as well and miracle.

00:52:48.891 --> 00:52:49.280
Yeah.

00:52:49.610 --> 00:52:50.809
But it was a miracle.

00:52:50.811 --> 00:52:58.909
I didn't want to know because I thought, no, why, why do I pray a note in my this name?

00:52:59.449 --> 00:52:59.449
Why?

00:53:00.800 --> 00:53:15.889
So, um, of course you think, um, it must have something to do with your few jobs, but you're not really ready, you know, feelings.

00:53:15.889 --> 00:53:17.510
I'm not ready for that.

00:53:18.769 --> 00:53:35.420
And then, uh, when I came home, um, of course, uh, Henny was in my city, so we were a small, we were not many members in our city going to Braman.

00:53:37.070 --> 00:53:50.030
And, um, so, um, yeah, we, we had, we the youth, the young adults, we met the things together and, and Henny was a good friend, so I could talk very good to him.

00:53:50.269 --> 00:53:57.980
And, um, so I tried to be just, um, he didn't know about my, what Mike students is.

00:53:58.130 --> 00:54:01.010
I just wanted to, to let go of things.

00:54:01.010 --> 00:54:01.429
Yeah.

00:54:02.809 --> 00:54:10.369
And I also talked to my, my[inaudible] and, um, and he was such a liar.

00:54:11.570 --> 00:54:17.179
I tried to, to, to thrust and listen again and just finished it.

00:54:18.019 --> 00:54:20.429
And, um, yeah.

00:54:22.840 --> 00:54:27.010
Did hinting have the same sort of experiences that you did that you found out about later?

00:54:27.969 --> 00:54:28.929
Yeah.

00:54:28.931 --> 00:54:33.730
So one time he, uh, he was with his friend.

00:54:34.239 --> 00:54:48.969
They, they just, um, took their bikes with a tent and went into the woods and he's, he's nice, like, like, um, uh, adventures.

00:54:50.199 --> 00:54:51.909
So he wasn't with his friends.

00:54:51.940 --> 00:55:03.130
And, um, and then he told me later that he, uh, he wa he had something that could three men, just so my eye very close.

00:55:05.139 --> 00:55:06.340
So something like that.

00:55:07.690 --> 00:55:08.110
Yeah.

00:55:08.949 --> 00:55:10.150
So what happened?

00:55:10.150 --> 00:55:13.329
Like when did you end up getting together and getting married and

00:55:15.940 --> 00:55:16.269
on the time?

00:55:16.659 --> 00:55:31.239
So it was, um, I mean, uh, we, we, uh, we, we shad time, so we had femini home evening, I invited all the young adults to have a house with my parents.

00:55:31.420 --> 00:55:44.769
So I moved back to my parents, um, uh, before my mission because yeah, I had an apartment and I had my furnitures and everything, and then they, they, meanwhile, they had a house.

00:55:45.579 --> 00:55:51.550
And so I, I took my friends to my parents during my mission and after my mission I was leaving.

00:55:52.690 --> 00:55:56.349
And so, um, uh, yeah.

00:55:56.650 --> 00:55:57.730
And off to cook.

00:55:57.731 --> 00:56:04.840
And I did all the young adults missionary style house with, um, home evening there.

00:56:04.840 --> 00:56:11.949
So with scripture reading and eating and singing and lay to keep taught.

00:56:12.309 --> 00:56:13.539
We had a good time.

00:56:14.349 --> 00:56:26.630
And, um, and sometimes we, we have also a like, um, there's something like, like you have camps.

00:56:26.750 --> 00:56:27.110
Yeah.

00:56:27.139 --> 00:56:38.269
So similar, not, not camp, but just, um, be in a house with all the young adults and, uh, put together scripture readings.

00:56:38.809 --> 00:56:41.030
So we did some, something like that.

00:56:41.300 --> 00:56:43.820
And we also had one meeting.

00:56:44.469 --> 00:56:49.099
It's think Knutson a, it was an Institute, um, meeting.

00:56:49.101 --> 00:56:59.659
So we, we did a lot of scripture study and it was very, very spiritual and they're tanning that, um, these go and that time.

00:56:59.661 --> 00:57:03.750
So he was not the friend who was together during his usage.

00:57:03.751 --> 00:57:05.329
She married someone that someone else.

00:57:06.980 --> 00:57:25.389
Um, and then he met, uh, this, this girl, um,[inaudible] um, but, and I, I was totally, um, not into heading because I didn't have the feeling I had these experiences, but not this feeling yet.

00:57:25.480 --> 00:57:25.750
Yeah.

00:57:26.079 --> 00:57:26.079
No.

00:57:28.059 --> 00:57:28.059
Mmm.

00:57:29.050 --> 00:57:32.590
And so, uh, I was okay with that.

00:57:33.099 --> 00:57:47.079
Um,[inaudible] girlfriend and when she came to them and how she could play, she could sleep at my place to, cause it was not allowed to stay in one bed when they were not married.

00:57:47.530 --> 00:57:55.690
So she stayed at my place when, um, when she came from Hanover to the attending and it was totally okay for me.

00:57:56.500 --> 00:57:59.500
And, um, yeah.

00:57:59.530 --> 00:58:05.710
Then my mom did for me, which really this is,

00:58:07.929 --> 00:58:07.929
uh,

00:58:08.780 --> 00:58:09.590
confused me.

00:58:09.590 --> 00:58:19.159
She, she had told me, um, uh, he, he's not in the office, his glove saying, how do you, why, why did he say that?

00:58:20.269 --> 00:58:22.639
Told me that, that he lost wax.

00:58:24.260 --> 00:58:26.389
Why would he say that to you?

00:58:27.530 --> 00:58:29.929
And, um,[inaudible]

00:58:30.099 --> 00:58:47.380
but anyway, it was, it was out of the blue that my mom said that because that wasn't on unit two and, and I was not, it was, but that made me a little bit thinking, Oh, why would you say that?

00:58:47.469 --> 00:58:50.619
Why did I have these experiences?

00:58:50.621 --> 00:58:58.210
And, and maybe, I don't know, but no, he hasn't, but that's okay with me.

00:58:59.230 --> 00:59:11.800
And then, uh, uh, there was a time his brother died, then young who was just, and I wasn't, I'm sorry about that.

00:59:11.800 --> 00:59:16.690
And I just went by to his house to get my common answer.

00:59:17.050 --> 00:59:19.360
It was shortly before Christmas.

00:59:20.320 --> 00:59:23.699
And then, um, yeah, thank you.

00:59:23.789 --> 00:59:26.579
And then said, Oh look, I want to show you something.

00:59:27.360 --> 00:59:28.980
And then he bought a ring.

00:59:30.179 --> 00:59:31.320
I'll have to give it to her.

00:59:32.190 --> 00:59:42.480
Uh, that shocked me and I was, I was, I was surprised that violet knew that he had a rating and know, uh, all these dogs.

00:59:42.570 --> 01:00:06.190
So I, I knew it was in the computer, but my feeling lie, I have reacted this way, but later on she broke up with him and then I thought, well, no, you want me to, so find out if heading is the right person before he gets another girlfriend.

01:00:09.550 --> 01:00:12.730
And then I talk to God again.

01:00:12.760 --> 01:00:33.159
I said, okay, heavenly father, he gave me these, I had these strange experience, this penny, but um, I don't, how have this, I don't have these hearings like someone is in love.

01:00:33.639 --> 01:00:40.570
So if you see a heading, having the right person for me and I need to have these feelings.

01:00:43.420 --> 01:00:52.360
And then I, um, I prayed and I said, Oh, maybe, maybe I'm admitted that the locked, so help me to be open.

01:00:53.230 --> 01:00:53.230
Okay.

01:00:53.860 --> 01:00:55.780
That's how, that's, that's the funny thing.

01:00:55.869 --> 01:01:05.710
So, and then I went to, um, and then with the younger tiles and Henning[inaudible] come there.

01:01:05.719 --> 01:01:07.929
I was there and I really missed him.

01:01:08.320 --> 01:01:11.829
And then I just took a walk and, and called him.

01:01:11.831 --> 01:01:15.550
And then he said, well, I was at your house today.

01:01:15.969 --> 01:01:16.780
I said, why?

01:01:16.849 --> 01:01:17.860
You know that I'm here?

01:01:17.980 --> 01:01:18.880
Yeah, I forgot.

01:01:20.679 --> 01:01:21.880
I said okay.

01:01:22.360 --> 01:01:24.519
And then we made a date.

01:01:24.579 --> 01:01:32.559
So when I come back and it just, it just hit me like a hammer after my brand.

01:01:32.860 --> 01:01:33.639
Isn't that weird?

01:01:34.940 --> 01:01:34.940
Okay.

01:01:35.769 --> 01:01:35.920
Yeah.

01:01:35.920 --> 01:01:45.969
And after this call and then when I came back, we have a, we had a first date with my new feelings and his was there.

01:01:46.539 --> 01:01:49.119
So that was the time we came together then.

01:01:51.710 --> 01:01:52.760
Oh, that's beautiful.

01:01:52.789 --> 01:01:53.570
I love that.

01:01:53.719 --> 01:01:55.940
Okay, well keep going, keep going forward.

01:01:56.119 --> 01:02:05.150
Uh, so, uh, you were with hitting now and you are, I don't know how old you were at this point and you're both members of the LDS church.

01:02:05.780 --> 01:02:17.210
Uh, can we move or unless there's something you want to talk about, but can we move to a place where you started to feel like the LDS church was not the place for you?

01:02:17.420 --> 01:02:19.099
Was it you who started to feel that way?

01:02:19.210 --> 01:02:20.050
Was it hitting?

01:02:20.230 --> 01:02:21.219
How did that work out?

01:02:22.449 --> 01:02:40.840
Well, you know, I never thought that the church is not the right place because for me to fit to get there was such a miracle that I thought God put me on this pace, but I'm heading so to submission in the States.

01:02:40.840 --> 01:02:42.610
So his English was very good.

01:02:43.210 --> 01:02:55.929
He got to read all these books about history and so he knew a lot more than me about the reality in church.

01:02:56.860 --> 01:03:07.119
But, um, I never listened to that because I was very busy and I had a lot of colleagues in the church.

01:03:07.579 --> 01:03:17.260
When I came back from my mission, I was, I had a call in the safe young woman presidency and it was very busy with that.

01:03:17.349 --> 01:03:38.219
And after having an I came together, um, the steak, um, um, started a little branch in diamond and[inaudible] was the branch precedent, but he had no counselors.

01:03:38.489 --> 01:03:40.710
So we had that were very few people.

01:03:42.030 --> 01:03:44.789
Um, and a lot of work and responsibilities.

01:03:47.130 --> 01:03:47.489
Yeah.

01:03:47.719 --> 01:03:52.139
There's few people who came and there were a few people who were willing to do something.

01:03:53.579 --> 01:03:53.900
Yeah.

01:03:53.920 --> 01:04:06.239
Hemming had just this, you know, the, the, the gospel taught in the RDS is to be perfect.

01:04:06.599 --> 01:04:08.550
No, it needs to be perfect.

01:04:08.550 --> 01:04:09.840
Like Christ is perfect.

01:04:10.920 --> 01:04:35.219
And he started to feel very uncomfortable with that because I mean, he had a lot of responsibility and didn't feel like he's still fitting out with, you know, and so he had a great quick problem with guilt, not doing everything and having weaknesses and it was a burden for him.

01:04:37.300 --> 01:04:50.179
And, um, so I was the happy goal always seeing the positive who the church and having all positive experiences and yeah.

01:04:50.210 --> 01:04:53.280
But I didn't really see the burden he had.

01:04:53.570 --> 01:04:53.570
Yeah.

01:04:54.760 --> 01:04:58.329
And he tried to get out of it somehow.

01:04:59.320 --> 01:05:03.400
And then we, we hit our first seminar.

01:05:03.610 --> 01:05:09.880
That was also because Samuel cam, it was also a miracle happened to us.

01:05:10.900 --> 01:05:17.920
So we were married, but he didn't have a child.

01:05:18.519 --> 01:05:32.449
So it took time and he thought he wouldn't get children and, and he had to take some medication for a time and then he said, no, no, it's not because I, yeah.

01:05:33.469 --> 01:05:44.360
And then one day that was a high priests visit to diamond Haas and he asked any indication of getting a blessing.

01:05:45.170 --> 01:05:50.929
And then he said, then any came home and said he wrote his journal.

01:05:50.931 --> 01:05:57.559
Is that I want to lead you to read something to you and this blessings that I do, I will have a boy.

01:05:57.561 --> 01:05:59.360
And she may even Samuel.

01:06:00.469 --> 01:06:01.550
Oh wow.

01:06:02.170 --> 01:06:04.699
How could he save something like that?

01:06:06.119 --> 01:06:10.199
And then, uh, I, I was waiting, let's see.

01:06:10.650 --> 01:06:13.679
Then I got pregnant and still, I was not very faithful.

01:06:13.681 --> 01:06:16.110
I was like, huh, 50 50 chance.

01:06:16.409 --> 01:06:20.639
What is, it's the goal, but it was a boy then.

01:06:21.119 --> 01:06:24.630
And that was something that I can that go again.

01:06:24.659 --> 01:06:34.769
So[inaudible] yeah, but still Miguel was there, the word Kotler let enough people to help.

01:06:36.210 --> 01:06:45.340
And then, uh, so also when I was, um, I didn't go to work anymore, it was Henning.

01:06:46.059 --> 01:06:53.679
Amy was setting and when I had the baby, um, he studied meant to go to custody.

01:06:55.210 --> 01:07:11.820
Well, when, yeah, it was a glow and he studied go over managed group, international studies of Hoover management and um, we normally we gland to that I could let go if you know what this illness.

01:07:12.210 --> 01:07:25.289
So meanwhile, after my mission, I, I started to work as a trainee, as a nurse and my education was a nurse.

01:07:27.099 --> 01:07:29.650
So, um, yeah.

01:07:30.909 --> 01:07:35.889
Uh, so it wasn't all possible going to go Costa Rica then.

01:07:37.360 --> 01:07:43.630
And he started to search for work because I wasn't working full time.

01:07:44.860 --> 01:07:55.480
Wanted to do that for the child because there's a moment when you have a child and stay at home and yeah, that was a tough time.

01:07:58.150 --> 01:08:08.349
Um, maybe Henan can tell his story when himself he went through, but it came that we had to move to Frankfurt.

01:08:08.769 --> 01:08:18.510
He had a great opportunity there that he could, um, um, cap other family, um, work.

01:08:20.520 --> 01:08:27.529
And, um, when we moved to front books, I think this is the time, um, getting started.

01:08:27.609 --> 01:08:29.829
So, um,

01:08:30.409 --> 01:08:43.699
and then the patient itself more and more from the teachings of the IDs church and when a dominant was born was the time he wanted to break out.

01:08:44.840 --> 01:08:47.659
And he searched for help.

01:08:49.680 --> 01:09:02.510
And the, um, free church had meetings there but still said, Kate, I can go on to church and the children can go out in the church.

01:09:03.909 --> 01:09:03.909
[inaudible]

01:09:04.149 --> 01:09:08.899
then if they want the cancer and I, for me, it's not the right thing anymore.

01:09:09.770 --> 01:09:20.569
And that was a time for me, which was very hard because I thought, well, you're supposed to be in Jonathan was even the tempo.

01:09:20.570 --> 01:09:29.420
I know he's leading the way and it was a very tough time, um, for me.

01:09:29.479 --> 01:09:31.460
And I didn't understand him.

01:09:32.420 --> 01:10:02.979
Just, uh, went on the wa the way I was taught over the years and the mindset I had, the thing is in them, in the mindset of Norman church is when someone leaves the church, then it's because of his, I'm not obedient enough or he has, he has issues with the things.

01:10:02.980 --> 01:10:10.770
And, and, and this is the mindset, um, which is not healthy for her relationship.

01:10:11.399 --> 01:10:32.069
You know, you, you think, um, uh, you married a different person and now he's leading the way and um, and you just got to see, um, mistakes, you know, it's just step to look to partner in a different way.

01:10:34.000 --> 01:10:37.689
And I think, um, yeah, that was a tough time.

01:10:39.250 --> 01:10:51.109
Um, but what, what helped us is that we both love Jesus Christ and he was like a[inaudible] faith.

01:10:51.739 --> 01:10:56.810
And that always helped us, um, get back to each other, you know.

01:10:58.069 --> 01:11:13.010
So there were times, like when you get through the church, you get these teachings, how a family should be, and you're always a search for the mistakes and no spouse because you are in the church.

01:11:13.289 --> 01:11:13.560
Yeah.

01:11:13.619 --> 01:11:16.590
And he's not there and he's going a different way.

01:11:16.649 --> 01:11:42.039
And so nowhere that was thoughts like deep balls and it's easier to, to, to, to, to have, um, the same goals, different goals and the children, um, have one direction and not different, but no, we, we overcame these things.

01:11:42.041 --> 01:11:46.090
But during that time I felt very

01:11:46.239 --> 01:11:52.090
uncomfortable and alone, um, and were living in Parkwood

01:11:52.750 --> 01:12:00.460
and I left my work, like my work and Braman, but I still had the contract.

01:12:00.461 --> 01:12:08.409
So because of the tutor I said, so I take a break, I'm still signed in and whenever I want I can come back.

01:12:09.710 --> 01:12:09.710
Huh.

01:12:09.970 --> 01:12:19.300
And now I felt so[inaudible] and Frankfurt and miss my, my, uh, friends and family.

01:12:19.359 --> 01:12:28.340
And because in the church you have Napa, Sundays you'll have visiting teacher who are nice.

01:12:28.369 --> 01:12:34.760
But, uh, I felt, um, very, very lonely then.

01:12:35.149 --> 01:12:49.850
And then we, we, um, I had friends out of, outside of the church, but, um, I felt spiritual knowing my purpose, what, what, what is my purpose?

01:12:50.569 --> 01:12:54.319
And I always liked to be independent.

01:12:54.680 --> 01:13:03.350
I don't like to be dependent on and um, we wanted to buy an apartment

01:13:04.770 --> 01:13:08.670
and then we're looking for an apartment in the amnio hug.

01:13:08.850 --> 01:13:08.850
What?

01:13:08.850 --> 01:13:11.220
And it was so expensive,

01:13:12.010 --> 01:13:15.550
but our relationship was not very healthy.

01:13:16.510 --> 01:13:20.979
And I uh, like why should I buy an apartment?

01:13:23.079 --> 01:13:35.829
Um, Outback because in the Outback is it's cheaper than the city and um, no friends here and their relationship is not

01:13:36.500 --> 01:13:37.279
really healthy.

01:13:38.149 --> 01:13:39.920
No, I don't want to buy an apartment.

01:13:39.921 --> 01:13:40.159
Yeah.

01:13:40.460 --> 01:13:52.489
I go back to Northern Germany, go back to work and buy, buy a house in Northern Germany, close to my parents and my friends and my work.

01:13:53.869 --> 01:14:04.010
So I made this decision for myself and I told him so I don't work with idols or close to crazy household.

01:14:04.100 --> 01:14:16.210
So, and then a pop me who've met me that living many different people and you have to get with people, sorry, something to be done in the house you meet and get the position.

01:14:16.220 --> 01:14:21.520
I said, I don't want these because this is so expensive and you're not independent.

01:14:21.909 --> 01:14:30.510
And then often done and you get a house for that even cheaper and you have no work clothes, you have family clothes.

01:14:31.630 --> 01:14:37.449
And so, um, and my relationship, so I said, no, I don't know.

01:14:38.500 --> 01:14:45.100
I am looking for a house in Northern Germany and my mom's going to take care of the children.

01:14:46.119 --> 01:14:49.680
I go back to Jim Nelson journey none.

01:14:49.680 --> 01:14:54.689
Then he said, well, okay, and then, um, I come with you.

01:14:55.319 --> 01:14:57.960
So he was really very patient.

01:14:58.319 --> 01:14:58.680
Yeah.

01:15:00.119 --> 01:15:09.149
And so we searched one house, I talked to my dog, I said, Oh, I want to connect.

01:15:11.489 --> 01:15:13.170
Um, I will start to work.

01:15:13.939 --> 01:15:13.939
[inaudible]

01:15:17.710 --> 01:15:46.720
at the beginning does to come to come back into the subject and the thing, because I was[inaudible] and then uh, yeah, I started when we found a house, my mom took care for my boys and I went back to work, but it didn't work out because my mom is, um, she, she had my niece as well sometimes and, but my mom was sleeping.

01:15:46.720 --> 01:15:51.069
A lot of the children would ship just over the place and doing whatever they wanted.

01:15:52.569 --> 01:15:55.510
It was not a reading, you can well there.

01:15:55.520 --> 01:15:57.939
And then I said, Oh no, it doesn't work.

01:15:58.739 --> 01:16:03.430
And then I, I searched for someone to care for my children to pay.

01:16:03.670 --> 01:16:07.869
I pay for other person.

01:16:09.220 --> 01:16:19.479
And um, the house we bought was slap on my work and a long, long distance to go and heading sales steak in front foot.

01:16:19.480 --> 01:16:25.869
So he, he, um, he was looking for a job and humble look and then he got it.

01:16:26.649 --> 01:16:31.029
But to me he had to, it's all, it was also very fast to get there.

01:16:31.119 --> 01:16:34.119
So it was just a crazy idea to get there.

01:16:36.130 --> 01:16:41.949
The house was good, but, um, the, the circumstances were very crazy.

01:16:43.119 --> 01:17:00.579
The job, um, I had, um, now I know to go back to my, to my work, but my youngest side, he was, he got sick so often and I really felt bad to bring to the day they care and caring for other people.

01:17:01.029 --> 01:17:10.729
Why am I, my son was sick and then I took, um, medication for you, get some free time when you're[inaudible].

01:17:11.060 --> 01:17:18.229
Um, but um, this time was, uh, I took them all because he was sick so often.

01:17:18.829 --> 01:17:27.949
So I ha I really didn't have any, um, um, vacation, probably sick kid and Mark was all Trenton.

01:17:29.270 --> 01:17:32.420
And then I really felt bad at my job was tough.

01:17:32.689 --> 01:17:52.750
There was always a lot to do and I, I brought the kids like in the morning to the DayCaf now why they were sleeping and then, uh, came back late and, and then, um, so I really didn't have much time for them and it didn't feel good.

01:17:53.250 --> 01:18:07.489
Me, it didn't work out or to work in the Naro and um,[inaudible] went back to front board, um, work from[inaudible] and then for a year and then you had to find something else.

01:18:07.909 --> 01:18:09.739
So we had to move to unit.

01:18:12.199 --> 01:18:27.729
And, um, when we moved to Munich, um, that was a time, um, we came back to church with us because it was a different, well, but then he left again.

01:18:29.460 --> 01:18:29.460
Hmm.

01:18:31.670 --> 01:18:47.329
And then I was, I was still fighting to come back and this brought me to the, he went out of the church in North Germany who was, um, he resigned from the church.

01:18:48.140 --> 01:18:53.390
And when we were back in your neck, I really got him this bag again.

01:18:54.890 --> 01:18:54.890
Okay.

01:18:55.069 --> 01:19:11.359
And then there was a change of, uh, leadership and, um, he, um, he left the church at Penn and I felt, um, I, I could see that it was not okay to wait.

01:19:11.420 --> 01:19:19.069
They cheated him and was really listening and we had a new, I would had a good relationship.

01:19:19.550 --> 01:19:26.569
And so we, we, uh, tried to find something comparable for all of us.

01:19:27.619 --> 01:19:40.069
So when we moved from a monopoly part of Munich Outback to not Munich, we tried to find a congregation.

01:19:40.640 --> 01:19:51.590
Um, we all would like, so Henning sound a big church families and we visited them and, uh, it felt good.

01:19:51.649 --> 01:19:52.909
So it wasn't nice.

01:19:54.680 --> 01:20:05.420
Uh, congregation and, um, the children went with them to Pentecost, had spiritual experiences, but still, um, preach much.

01:20:05.421 --> 01:20:07.529
People hate moments, costs.

01:20:08.909 --> 01:20:14.069
And I'm so like Samuel, he will very open to talk of these.

01:20:14.070 --> 01:20:23.680
Said, well, what he talked about the church and, and they, yeah.

01:20:23.770 --> 01:20:28.210
So I was not, um, against the church.

01:20:28.899 --> 01:20:33.819
I just wanted to have my family together in Christ.

01:20:33.850 --> 01:20:47.260
I didn't care which church, just that we all had together and, um, and, and, uh, practice on hot face and prizes still put them in.

01:20:47.319 --> 01:21:08.439
And so, but I had nothing against the church, so, and, but I didn't like when they, when someone talked that, you know, the church and, um, we had, um, we, we thought about joining this congregation, but then really nice something was making missing class.

01:21:09.340 --> 01:21:15.789
And then Henning a saw on the homepage that there was a, um, community of Christ in Augsburg.

01:21:16.689 --> 01:21:26.170
And I started, so when we went together to this congregation, free church congregation, then heading stuff going and I was alone going to this congregation.

01:21:26.171 --> 01:21:35.140
And then I thought, well, if I'm the only person to go, then I can go back to the Roman church by Malone anyway, because I don't have anything against it.

01:21:36.760 --> 01:21:47.500
So I went back to the Mormon church and I'm heading, asked me, well, there was a convention, community congregation, you know, I would like to visit.

01:21:48.310 --> 01:21:49.149
I said, what is it?

01:21:49.150 --> 01:21:53.470
And he said, yeah, it's the church which went with Emma.

01:21:56.539 --> 01:21:56.539
Okay,

01:21:57.079 --> 01:21:58.939
that's a restoration tradition church.

01:21:59.930 --> 01:22:02.689
And I said, Oh, interesting, I would like to come.

01:22:04.100 --> 01:22:05.600
So we need consistent.

01:22:06.319 --> 01:22:14.119
Um, and he was so nice with patron hos and, and um, me tie.

01:22:14.390 --> 01:22:16.130
We're also a nice couple.

01:22:16.131 --> 01:22:18.140
And I was supposed to Christ.

01:22:18.979 --> 01:22:28.640
Um, the talk was, um, it touched me and even the communion was similar.

01:22:29.779 --> 01:22:37.899
So the blessing seminar, uh, like I, I was used to but they didn't need very often.

01:22:37.900 --> 01:22:42.659
So who were there ones?

01:22:43.649 --> 01:22:47.340
And then sometime, and then I went back to[inaudible].

01:22:47.369 --> 01:23:21.489
I had my callings, but I was, so when we moved to[inaudible] first was primary teacher, primary precedent, then I was, um, the society teacher and um, and once it was the funny things and asked me if I would like to teach Institute, well the young adult and um, that is a Saint Klein and they wanted to um, to talk to my husband if he's okay with it, but then never did cause they, that wasn't me also.

01:23:21.520 --> 01:23:30.699
So Jenny was very open to communicate, but he had his blog talking openly about things.

01:23:31.789 --> 01:23:35.470
So now people were afraid that it touched too.

01:23:35.500 --> 01:23:37.750
And I think, I don't know.

01:23:39.479 --> 01:23:45.539
Um, finally I, I have this calling as a[inaudible] teacher, but they know I talk to him.

01:23:45.569 --> 01:23:46.470
I talked to him.

01:23:47.710 --> 01:23:47.710
Okay.

01:23:51.189 --> 01:23:51.609
Yeah.

01:23:52.000 --> 01:23:54.159
So I have my calling point of the church.

01:23:54.789 --> 01:23:57.310
Recognize me alone sometimes with a boy.

01:23:57.310 --> 01:24:14.350
I saw the buys, I forced him to come until they were 14, and after 14 they could decide what to do then a horse by the time to time or just invite attending as well would meet again and have to come than any Oh man.

01:24:14.590 --> 01:24:15.020
Meeting again,

01:24:17.050 --> 01:24:17.979
I was like, yeah, why not?

01:24:18.640 --> 01:24:20.859
And for that I, I didn't go to her mom on check.

01:24:20.860 --> 01:24:22.420
I went to outspoken with him.

01:24:23.649 --> 01:24:23.890
So this

01:24:23.989 --> 01:24:29.270
or what's, um, um, yeah, I don't know who it started.

01:24:30.529 --> 01:24:38.029
And then there was the time I was, um, diagnosed, um, cancer.

01:24:38.060 --> 01:25:00.560
Breast cancer was, um, at the beginning of 2015 I just started a new job in surgery, uh, um, in, uh, Jennica over there and they would, they had a breast cancer people, all kinds of things.

01:25:01.069 --> 01:25:11.000
I started to work in this, um, competence center for this issue and, and got cancer myself.

01:25:11.001 --> 01:25:16.069
It was just, uh, and, um, my colleagues.

01:25:17.069 --> 01:25:22.829
Um, and you should, and you should do a Tia because[inaudible] you have the,

01:25:23.510 --> 01:25:29.899
and working with, uh, cause and this professor and you know, really go Tanzania.

01:25:30.909 --> 01:25:47.180
And so I did and they wanted to put me into study, uh, uh, for the treatment and for this, uh, I was not supposed to many people because of infection.

01:25:48.289 --> 01:26:00.170
And so I said, um,[inaudible] so I wouldn't be able to teach Institute anymore and come to church and are doing this treatment.

01:26:01.489 --> 01:26:03.829
That was the first time and

01:26:04.340 --> 01:26:05.600
what 20 years.

01:26:06.109 --> 01:26:12.409
But I didn't go to church every Sunday and I had a not have time to do the thing.

01:26:12.680 --> 01:26:26.600
And it wasn't a shock of course that I had cancer or I had to, to find my weight and, and then a lot of work to take walks outside.

01:26:26.960 --> 01:26:34.220
So from the moment I was diagnosed, I didn't know I didn't need to go to work anymore.

01:26:35.680 --> 01:26:41.109
Normally when you work as a secretary or something, you can still go to work.

01:26:41.110 --> 01:26:43.539
But in my case, I'm at[inaudible].

01:26:43.750 --> 01:26:49.420
This is a trauma and you don't need to come in and see what happens to people who have this.

01:26:49.689 --> 01:26:50.050
Yeah.

01:26:50.079 --> 01:27:12.729
So I, I was about to said I don't need to go to work and I had a lot of time to think and ponder and um, to read in that time, I started to meet an[inaudible] director, um, Daniel from, uh,[inaudible] notes.

01:27:14.529 --> 01:27:18.819
So Henny and, and needle are translating that into German.

01:27:19.930 --> 01:27:21.640
And that was very easy for me then.

01:27:22.000 --> 01:27:26.050
So I'm very lazy and so it's easy for me to read it in German.

01:27:27.369 --> 01:27:40.779
And so[inaudible] the, the pain is in that year in Institute, we started to lead a doctrine and covenants and cut off my prize.

01:27:41.829 --> 01:27:46.479
And I was afraid to keep that cause I hit some news news from it.

01:27:47.920 --> 01:27:51.609
So I was glad and I didn't need to go and to do it.

01:27:53.659 --> 01:28:04.119
And then I read this letter, many things can, you always told me this came, just hit me.

01:28:04.121 --> 01:28:06.640
And I understood what he meant in all the years.

01:28:07.260 --> 01:28:25.149
You know, the thing is that as uh, an active, uh, MoMA[inaudible] like took me a critic, things about church, you always try to rationalize and to um, to defend.

01:28:26.090 --> 01:28:32.409
This is what I was already used to now I was just open and just saw these dates.

01:28:32.411 --> 01:28:45.130
And sometime before, if all my dad knows also what, which helped me to get a better relationship to any loss or the podcasts of Jonathan.

01:28:46.270 --> 01:28:50.130
So he had ms podcast stay out.

01:28:50.140 --> 01:28:59.710
He asked her dog, and this is something I could do because it says stay out the ass, you know, I said, okay, you could have cannibalism.

01:29:01.109 --> 01:29:15.930
And then I heard all these stories, but honest people who, um, experience things which were not okay, but they still wanted to stay out here, you know?

01:29:17.250 --> 01:29:23.310
And um, I, I could see heading in that, how he was treated and how he was struggling.

01:29:24.090 --> 01:29:39.270
So, um, I listened to podcasts during the time I had time, so that were, meanwhile it was called mom's stories, let's say mom's stories.

01:29:39.270 --> 01:29:55.140
Comcast and I received a lot of stories and just, I just was[inaudible] how crazy this system is, but still I try to go to church sometime.

01:29:55.170 --> 01:30:04.289
I said I, I thought, Oh, maybe I just can go to second meeting because my mindset was, you need to go to church on Sunday.

01:30:04.350 --> 01:30:05.550
I missed that.

01:30:06.689 --> 01:30:16.770
And so I went just to sacrament and then it was the year close to the pad to go ahead.

01:30:18.079 --> 01:30:18.649
No,

01:30:19.640 --> 01:30:23.060
and I was really in danger and I did get to touch.

01:30:23.119 --> 01:30:24.560
I didn't want to touch anyone.

01:30:24.590 --> 01:30:28.340
And so, but when you come there, they come and want to hug of you.

01:30:28.341 --> 01:30:29.899
And it's neat.

01:30:30.050 --> 01:30:41.180
And I was like, and but from time to time I went any to Oxford community of Christ.

01:30:41.689 --> 01:30:46.550
So somehow started to go regularly when they met.

01:30:48.710 --> 01:30:58.029
And then there was this time in April when Richard James visited Alex book cause called herring.

01:30:58.819 --> 01:31:00.920
Well, what happened across the region?

01:31:01.369 --> 01:31:10.489
Jane's coming to Alex book and I wanna um, Shantara would like to have a blessing and, um, that was a big deal.

01:31:10.529 --> 01:31:17.039
Closet possibly coming to our house and offer a blessing was wow, that's neat.

01:31:19.020 --> 01:31:19.020
Said.

01:31:19.020 --> 01:31:20.789
Yeah, she would love to.

01:31:20.791 --> 01:31:21.720
So he talked to me.

01:31:22.380 --> 01:31:23.279
Oh cool.

01:31:24.720 --> 01:31:28.229
And so, um, Richard Lowery, Maguire

01:31:29.510 --> 01:31:29.510
[inaudible]

01:31:31.140 --> 01:31:43.680
and then they came and we talked, we had worked together, we share stories and, and then, uh, Richard asked me, uh, Jesus Christ would be here.

01:31:43.680 --> 01:31:49.079
What, uh, what's this question with me?

01:31:49.590 --> 01:31:52.640
Thought, wow, it's awesome.

01:31:52.859 --> 01:31:53.159
I don't know.

01:31:53.161 --> 01:31:53.699
Positive.

01:31:53.701 --> 01:32:02.710
He's, he's, he's interested in what Christ would do and that's how I see a witness of Christ yeah.

01:32:03.039 --> 01:32:05.079
Is to have the design world.

01:32:06.550 --> 01:32:11.050
And, uh, yeah, I, I had my, my thinking, my heart.

01:32:11.380 --> 01:32:11.930
You love that.

01:32:13.590 --> 01:32:27.310
But I said, I mean, I, I, my desire was always that my family is, um, in Christ, in Christ cotton, um,[inaudible] household.

01:32:29.319 --> 01:32:43.210
And so he gave me, and so, um, cost and onto[inaudible] and then, um, I can see that this blessing is, was very touched, very unique for me.

01:32:43.211 --> 01:32:44.250
And that was a,

01:32:45.899 --> 01:32:47.789
this day was a changing,

01:32:48.890 --> 01:32:55.579
um, my, um, strong belief that, uh, God has put me into the area's church

01:32:56.750 --> 01:33:02.960
because came to my mind that, um, if I would ask today, which, which, which church

01:33:05.050 --> 01:33:07.420
for me, the answer would be community and class.

01:33:09.630 --> 01:33:09.630
[inaudible]

01:33:09.810 --> 01:33:11.779
so that was, um,

01:33:11.899 --> 01:33:13.340
the day I'll change.

01:33:13.399 --> 01:33:20.520
And that day I thought, Hmm, today is the day.

01:33:21.239 --> 01:33:27.390
Um, this was my best to them being that until the LDS church, when widget came to my house.

01:33:28.340 --> 01:33:33.199
And so, anyhow, I thought that this is a sign

01:33:35.350 --> 01:33:45.100
that I, I changed my mind that God, um, there's another guys in scary to try to,

01:33:46.600 --> 01:33:46.989
yeah.

01:33:47.619 --> 01:33:50.510
So I have my[inaudible]

01:33:51.079 --> 01:33:57.680
fee and at the end of the therapy I was talking to[inaudible] therapy together.

01:33:57.680 --> 01:33:58.880
We just don't know.

01:33:58.909 --> 01:34:04.039
We talked about what's coming next and let this up believing.

01:34:04.069 --> 01:34:15.590
And so I told her about having everyone's[inaudible] class and I told her how much I like community of closet, but I don't know if I want to join as well.

01:34:17.300 --> 01:34:19.369
And so we both joined, uh,

01:34:20.039 --> 01:34:25.079
we're confirmed in a community class needs to come off 2015.

01:34:27.479 --> 01:34:27.869
Yeah.

01:34:28.520 --> 01:34:30.319
I can't remember when you were confirmed either.

01:34:30.320 --> 01:34:32.300
I don't know if I was still in Europe at that time.

01:34:32.301 --> 01:34:36.680
I left Europe in September, 2016 and I don't know if it happened.

01:34:36.710 --> 01:34:37.010
Yeah.

01:34:37.189 --> 01:34:39.949
So that's, it's a beautiful story.

01:34:40.460 --> 01:34:40.460
Shantel.

01:34:40.461 --> 01:34:41.659
It's really beautiful.

01:34:41.680 --> 01:34:50.750
And what a difficult transition for you time like have with the diagnosis of cancer and with leaving the LDS church and joining a different church.

01:34:50.751 --> 01:34:54.590
That's a huge, those are a lot of huge transitions for ya.

01:34:55.420 --> 01:34:55.930
Yeah.

01:34:58.680 --> 01:35:04.050
So now you and the hinting are both members of community of Christ.

01:35:04.869 --> 01:35:04.869
Okay.

01:35:04.939 --> 01:35:08.920
And was there an ordination in there somewhere for you?

01:35:10.449 --> 01:35:10.960
Yeah.

01:35:11.229 --> 01:35:35.270
So, um, in that time when I, um, I join community of Christ, I had my surgery so we could get happy and then you get, um, the surgery because the cancer shell, Pete's smaller, but in my case it go again.

01:35:36.350 --> 01:35:49.050
And um, I had the surgery and then I had a second, um, cancer different and I needed to get him, yeah.

01:35:50.670 --> 01:35:51.630
A treatment again.

01:35:52.180 --> 01:35:53.430
She, she moved out with me again.

01:35:53.460 --> 01:35:57.829
So by the, um, 80%.

01:36:00.590 --> 01:36:01.819
[inaudible] yeah.

01:36:02.390 --> 01:36:02.779
Oops.

01:36:03.260 --> 01:36:10.550
Well, I started in the beginning of 2016 I started with a new treatment.

01:36:12.310 --> 01:36:13.600
Oh, she looked that up too.

01:36:13.960 --> 01:36:28.029
And that was ever member of cries and people were praying for me and were very nice and kind and, and I was shocked that I had to go through a Shimo canopy again.

01:36:28.090 --> 01:36:29.710
My hand was just going.

01:36:30.100 --> 01:36:37.359
And then again, that was a different shame when I said I wouldn't use all the hat again, but that's not that important.

01:36:38.770 --> 01:36:56.050
But, um, during that time, um, of my second shameful, I didn't know if I, how long I wouldn't be, I said I thought meaningful on people.

01:36:56.250 --> 01:37:09.789
This, this cancer I had was, um, very aggressive and, um, I didn't know how long I was just leaving from day to day and just don't know what comes next.

01:37:09.791 --> 01:37:11.229
And then, and then Joey

01:37:13.600 --> 01:37:13.600
[inaudible]

01:37:13.720 --> 01:37:16.539
the possibility to do seminary.

01:37:19.210 --> 01:37:19.210
Yeah.

01:37:19.211 --> 01:37:28.300
And this was, um, something that was so like a tendon mercy to me.

01:37:29.170 --> 01:37:33.520
So like, um, this option is that maybe

01:37:34.270 --> 01:37:34.270
right.

01:37:36.939 --> 01:37:42.760
Gave me the chance to live and, and, um, to do something almost.

01:37:43.180 --> 01:37:48.250
Uh, it wasn't any hopeful that, that gave me a lot of hope.

01:37:51.750 --> 01:37:55.510
I try to do all the paperwork for eight.

01:37:57.619 --> 01:38:16.970
And then there was a, also were companies[inaudible] 16, and it was, um, something I said, Oh, I would like to put the at work costumes and experience that maybe it's the only time in my life I can do that.

01:38:18.560 --> 01:38:34.729
And so I, um, Joey, um, that could count as, um, uh, so for the West moon mission, he could come at as delegates.

01:38:36.619 --> 01:38:49.699
And, um, I talked to my doctor, so I was, I finished my shame with MFE and then I had to do the radio tech and then I, I made an apartment.

01:38:50.359 --> 01:38:53.449
Um, other radiotherapy.

01:38:53.451 --> 01:39:06.229
And she asked me, um, if I have a plans this year, and I said, yeah, I would like to be, I would like to go to world conference for church, uh, in may.

01:39:07.810 --> 01:39:25.310
And just said, Oh, we could make it because that man event and um, and you can have, um, at the end you can have double shame with therapeutic can have in the morning and in the, in the evening and then we can make it.

01:39:27.199 --> 01:39:28.279
I said, really?

01:39:28.609 --> 01:39:29.689
She said, yeah, we can do that.

01:39:30.649 --> 01:39:51.560
So my doctors were all great, so whatever I had the desire to do, like going sailing with the sailing rebels, um, I could interrupt my chemotherapy and go and do that or moving to the break, three weeks break, I could go to Egypt.

01:39:52.909 --> 01:40:04.640
The doctors will also kind just, we just, um, um, helping to, to have a desire to live and to, to do whatever I would like to do.

01:40:05.539 --> 01:40:06.409
That was really unique.

01:40:07.699 --> 01:40:12.529
And so they made it possible that I, I could go to world conference.

01:40:12.530 --> 01:40:25.939
So I, I finished my radio therapy and uh, uh, in the morning and then I went to the airport to come to work conference the same day repenting.

01:40:26.239 --> 01:40:26.720
Yeah.

01:40:28.550 --> 01:40:59.539
And, um, during work conference I met, I was introduced to Mexico, uh, um, that, you know, of Graceland, have, you know, from[inaudible] and um, yeah, we were talking about the possibility for me stop the seminary and I think I started to do it.

01:41:00.140 --> 01:41:13.569
And um, so Richard also came to the unique and he started a group with us[inaudible] group.

01:41:14.439 --> 01:41:35.529
So we had a house church with some people and then, um, later on, so harvest helped us maybe Bronco and then we will, are they ordained as priests who have, um, the preparation of the bra with[inaudible] online preparation.

01:41:36.399 --> 01:41:39.189
And uh, I also came and visited.

01:41:40.600 --> 01:41:52.159
We were, are they as pleased and um, started off house trips and something really[inaudible].

01:41:52.930 --> 01:42:00.880
I had the chance to baptize and um, you know, a small house catch.

01:42:01.689 --> 01:42:13.750
So she, uh, um, she, she was in the LDS church and she, she left the church and while doing time out we sickness.

01:42:14.829 --> 01:42:30.939
And the last for herself that it was not, she, she, she had new issues and because of a friend of mine who was in off most church, um, as it came to the teacher and, and she told him, well, if you're so happy, what happened?

01:42:30.940 --> 01:42:51.789
And then he told, uh, about her meeting at our house church, we had, um, wonderful, uh, meeting, uh, uh,[inaudible], John Haimer[inaudible] he gave the presentation and maybe we had some visitors from the lean in.

01:42:51.800 --> 01:42:55.489
I came and so, and also a friend, a farmer.

01:42:57.890 --> 01:42:59.239
So we had a great meeting.

01:43:00.439 --> 01:43:10.909
So this experience and this friend went to[inaudible] and told the about he's experienced a house church.

01:43:11.359 --> 01:43:32.210
She wanted to talk to come next time she came in, I knew her very well because yeah, of course the load[inaudible] and so she, she was very excited about the community of Christ and the teachings and was more related to her faith.

01:43:32.211 --> 01:43:38.420
And she really laid out confidence for me to, Jaren is a baptism.

01:43:38.779 --> 01:43:41.539
So I, I, I don't want this combination.

01:43:41.569 --> 01:43:44.600
I want to do that because I'm a business.

01:43:45.079 --> 01:43:49.729
Um, and the only way for me to to do it.

01:43:50.569 --> 01:44:00.539
Um, so the first time I was not really, it was not really me, but now it's me wants to, to make her come on this.

01:44:01.409 --> 01:44:01.409
So

01:44:02.109 --> 01:44:03.100
you want it to be baptized.

01:44:04.119 --> 01:44:06.399
She wanted me to, to baptize them.

01:44:06.400 --> 01:44:07.510
It was a great honor.

01:44:07.899 --> 01:44:13.930
So to be will be pleased and I, it's a big deal as if, Oh my mom went to him.

01:44:14.350 --> 01:44:15.159
You have a piece to it.

01:44:15.161 --> 01:44:18.520
And then to have the opportunity to baptize.

01:44:19.449 --> 01:44:19.869
That's great.

01:44:21.029 --> 01:44:38.609
I mean, what a journey you've been on Shantelle from Rwanda to Germany to Catholic school to uh, to becoming a member of the LDS church, to becoming a member of Community Christ and then becoming a priest and community of Christ and doing baptisms and leading a house church.

01:44:38.640 --> 01:44:42.899
What an awesome and interesting life you've led so far.

01:44:44.340 --> 01:44:47.250
I'm sure that there's so much more that will come.

01:44:47.609 --> 01:44:49.079
I'm very excited about it.

01:44:49.989 --> 01:44:50.560
Yeah.

01:44:51.159 --> 01:44:51.579
Yeah.

01:44:53.159 --> 01:44:53.699
Well,

01:44:55.069 --> 01:44:57.439
I really appreciate you sharing your story with us.

01:44:57.440 --> 01:45:01.369
I know it's not always easy to talk about that.

01:45:01.640 --> 01:45:06.770
Those are some kinds of things like this, but I appreciate you being so open and vulnerable to do it.

01:45:07.369 --> 01:45:10.789
Uh, is there something else you want to say before we sign off?

01:45:15.750 --> 01:45:22.800
One thing I was thinking about is a transition in my spiritual practice.

01:45:24.210 --> 01:45:24.479
Oh.

01:45:24.480 --> 01:45:36.840
And what I learned from the second world conference, um, it's, yeah, for my house church and also for my spirituality is bad.

01:45:37.470 --> 01:45:44.850
Um, well just listen to the podcast of Larry Robbin and yesterday, uh, the David book.

01:45:45.420 --> 01:45:56.640
And, um, so my center now I'm here with, we started, um, doing, uh, yoga and she gong at the[inaudible].

01:45:57.270 --> 01:46:02.489
Um, and this is a spiritual practice for me as well.

01:46:02.550 --> 01:46:10.770
So she's, um, so church doesn't need to be something during the house church or in a church.

01:46:11.310 --> 01:46:28.829
It's been the friends on a Lake and, um, doing yoga like that and um, uh, she gong and, um, I'm very thankful for this new mindset and I hope, um, that next year.

01:46:30.149 --> 01:46:41.159
So right now because she broke help me, but, um, this is something new for me.

01:46:41.340 --> 01:46:47.729
A different spiritual practice, not only in church, but good congregations.

01:46:48.239 --> 01:46:51.609
And, um, yoga practice or meditation,

01:46:55.470 --> 01:46:57.869
I think that is super, super important.

01:46:57.930 --> 01:47:01.560
And I am a big proponent of spiritual practices.

01:47:01.560 --> 01:47:07.109
I think it's really the only way that we're going to understand where God is calling us.

01:47:07.110 --> 01:47:08.310
So that's awesome.

01:47:08.369 --> 01:47:09.600
I love hearing that.

01:47:11.460 --> 01:47:19.229
Uh, well gosh, thank you again for saying yes to this podcast and for saying yes to uh, telling us your story.

01:47:19.710 --> 01:47:21.029
Shantelle I really appreciate it.

01:47:22.020 --> 01:47:24.810
Yeah, thank you for the invitation.

01:47:25.470 --> 01:47:31.739
And um, yeah, that is, it is just, um, my, that I could tell my story.

01:47:32.050 --> 01:47:32.560
Absolutely.

01:47:34.390 --> 01:47:35.979
It's been wonderful talking to you.

01:47:37.100 --> 01:47:37.100
[inaudible]

01:47:44.010 --> 01:47:44.010
[inaudible]

01:47:45.500 --> 01:47:47.000
thanks for listening to projects.

01:47:47.001 --> 01:47:55.279
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01:47:55.640 --> 01:47:59.390
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01:47:59.390 --> 01:48:04.279
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01:48:04.789 --> 01:48:17.960
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01:48:18.560 --> 01:48:21.800
Music has been graciously provided by Dave Heinz.

01:48:41.840 --> 01:48:41.840
[inaudible]

01:48:51.920 --> 01:48:51.920
[inaudible].