263 | Steamers and Sodas | Kass Unger

Josh Mangelson :   0:17
Welcome to the Project Zion Podcast. This podcast explores the unique spiritual and theological gifts Community of Christ offers for today's world way.

Karin Peter:   0:33
Welcome to Sodas and Steamers. The Project Zion series about ministry with children and youth. I'm your host today, Karin Peter and our guest is Kassandra Unger. Now, I met you as Kass. Do you prefer Kass or Kassandra?

Kass Unger :   0:49
Um, I really don't have any preference. Most people know me as Kass. The only times I used Kassandra's when answering the phone. I have no idea why, but for some reason in my brain, Kassandra is appropriate phone answering voice. 

Karin Peter:   1:04
Oh, my goodness. Emily Post would be proud, and you'll have todo that was it. So Kass lives in Sydney, Australia, where she serves as a full time minister for Community Christ. She works in the Mission Center as the Mission Center Children's Minister. So welcome, welcome.  

Kass Unger :   1:25
Thank you!  

Karin Peter:   1:26
Now we visited earlier, and you had done an extra shot a while back with Carla about spiritual practices. And so this is a return visit for you on Project Zion, and we're glad that you had a good experience the first time and we're willing to come back again. So first you tell our Project Zion listeners a little bit about yourself.

Kass Unger :   1:50
Well, I think you actually covered most of the major points. I I guess I originally trained in genetics before getting ah, grad dip in education and teaching high school science. I'm soul of that. I did. Before I started working for the Community of Christ. I'm and I worked, uh, across the outside of Australia for a couple of years before I returned back to Sydney, which is where I was born, um, and to continue looking for the church. And first off, I was doing education and priesthood development stuff and then just recent recently, we've had a shift to align with our strategic plan. And so I've been taking on the role of Children Ministries. So I think that's pretty much me.

Karin Peter:   2:41
So,  Children's Ministries is not something that a lot of people in Mission Center life have.  

Karin Peter:   2:47
Yes! 

Karin Peter:   2:47
They see youth minister, but they don't always see Children's minister. So can you tell us a little bit about what that role is and how how it functions in your mission center?

Kass Unger :   2:58
It's like I just mentioned it is a new role for us to have. And I think we've had them in the past, but definitely had a break for a while on. And it kind of just means that I've shifted my focus on energies towards those that are under 12 and providing ministry on resources for those that provide ministry to this kind of younger age group. Um, it also means that I'm responsible for the child and youth protection training process on making sure that the Australian church is compliant with the state requirements. Um, and with the world church requirements for child and youth protection.

Karin Peter:   3:44
Thanks for bringing that up Kass, because we had Dave Davies from the legal department on Project Zion to do an episode on that, and I had not included it in our notes for our conversations. So thank you for bringing that up. 

Kass Unger :   3:57
Eh, I guess it kind of very much goes hand in hand with Children and Youth ministries. Yeah.

Karin Peter:   4:03
Yeah. So your Mission Center made a decision then to focus on Children's Ministry. Why? What's important? Tell us why they made that decision and why you feel Children's Ministry is important.

Kass Unger :   4:16
Um, I guess from the mission center level, the reason, one of the reasons they made a shift that they wanted to focus resources towards those that are under 40 as part of the strategic plan for 2000 a change of 2022 on That's part of the Australian strategic plan. And I guess that was, came out of a recognition off of upholding those age groups in and supporting them and promoting them because, truthfully, in Australia, those numbers are quite limited in the current church. For me, most simply, the reason why Children's Ministries is important is because I think everyone kind of needs to hear that they loved and that they valued just as they are, And so for me, I see the world is a hard place, and most people are just kind of trying to figure out where they fit in where they belong. And I think children and youth kind of, um, have a little bit worse thing that they can't, they have no frame of reference yet of who they are and, um, and don't yet realize that they don't need to fit into every aspect of their life because there's so many different areas and so I feel it's important that kids get places when they're accepted as who they are. And I think it's really important for kids to have other adults in their life other than their parents  that tell them that they're worthy of being loved and that they're awesome. Because parents it's kind of their job and some kids don't believe them when they tell them, so for me that's all part of why it's important. I think Community of Christ has really superb theology for everyone, but especially for children, when it upholds the enduring principles of the Blessings of Community and Unity and Diversity and showing them spaces where they can be different and still be accepted. So when you look at those Enduring Principles as well as the things of the Worth of all Persons having Children's Ministry makes sense. Catering for the smallest in a group, there's a scripture that Grant McMurray put forward 20 years ago that talks about not neglecting the smallest amongst you and recognizing that even these little people bringing gifting this and energy and we can learn from that. And so I just think that the Community of Christ has so much to offer everyone, but has really got a place in children's lives to give them a different perspective.

Karin Peter:   7:17
So was there a children's minister that did that for you that impacted your life and made you feel not just welcome but valued in community?

Kass Unger :   7:29
I don't particularly remember any Children's ministers when I was a child. I guess I was very fortunate that we had a lot. We had quite a lot of Children or a healthy coca when I went through on. What I do remember is a lot of their appearance taking an interest in in me taking an interest in all of us rather than just being concerned for their own week. Their child's well being, um, but taking, I guess, responsibility for getting to know each of us and making us been welcomed and accepted in that face. And so whilst they got many, um, there's no one that stands out as being responsible for all of it, but I do remember those parents taking an interest in us. I remember a lot of the stuff that was still and like kids camps. Um, I can't remember any of the activities, but I just remember those people year after year coming. And even now when I see them, um, I remember them as my my came stuff as a kid scam definitely made an impact on me and that Jenny, I'm I think for me, it's much easier to remember some of my youth ministers. I'm simply because it was a quiet as long ago. It was still struggling more with my sense of identity, and I really helped so shy shape that process.

Karin Peter:   9:09
 I appreciate you bringing that up. It also I think, um, youth ministers, we form relationships with them at a different point in our development, right? Yeah, the children's ministers. So what are some of the children's ministries? You mentioned that that you offer some children's ministries, but you also have resource is for other children's ministers, and then it's broader from there. So what are some of the kinds of things for which you're responsible, or that are that are a part of the mission center that other people are responsible for, but you helped resource?

Kass Unger :   9:48
Yeah. Um so there are a couple of things that I run. I'm on the ground with the kids doing it, and then there are other things that fortunately other congregations, that our a fair geographical distance from me have children, but that get anxious about providing those resources or having the time to come up with activities. So I prepare for their activities. That way they can can run them. And so I guess if I started the little list, um, each week I run a Tunes for Tots which is a music play group, for preschoolers and so are we seeing and read stories and play musical instruments and do parachute songs and and wave scarves. Um, And then we break for the morning tea and some free play for those kids, um, and the parents get an opportunity to chat and drink some coffee and socialize. And so I've been doing that, probably for that 2.5 years now, and whilst it's fun and entertaining and social for the kids, I think what we've really learned from that ministry is it's actually much more about the parents. Well, McKay give is because we have a couple of grand parents that that bring their I'm grand kids along, and it's about kind of providing them with a safe, non judgmental space for them to socialize. For them to complain about the lack of sleep, Um, for them Thio to figure out and navigate the parenting process. I think there's a lot of different sources that can provide information on how to parent and very few of those just You're doing a great job, you know, your kids and you can figure it out. Um, and I think that's kind of our role as well as going. This is what Lex remain. I don't know if it'll work for you, but if you're looking for an option, you can give it a try, and I can I can help you with that. And so we've been running that and my local congregation at Whispering Hills for about 2.5 year, 2.5 years. But I've also packaged up all of its content and its registration forms and all of that side of it. And there's ah sister congregation that we worked with in Bendigo, which is probably about an eight hour drive away from where we are on and they run it, too so they have been going for a little over a year. Um and so they used the exact same materials and I just kind of keeps a bit of statistics on the two of them. Just that what we can evaluate it as a program on this is, I think, one of the few programs that I have been in the full conception process off I'm and I really enjoy statistics and being able to work some of that information and understand how many people it's reached and how it helps and why people, um, have stopped coming in and how maternity leave factors into that and some of that stuff, which is being also great to be able to report on so we can understand it in a holistic activity. So that's kind of one of that's the program that I run into the smallest of peoples and then otherwise other stuff where I'm on the ground is in Australia. We run a children's camp, a major children's camp Ai JIA Um, and we used to do that into different sites. However in the state of New South Wales out numbers of have gotten so low that we can't do that at the moment. And so I have been, last year I ran a holiday program kind of instances for a couple of days and and so that can pull that holiday program has got an opportunity to connect with the primary school age group and to spend some time with them and developing safe communities to teach them a little bit about peace is what our focus was last time. And so that's kind of a component in organizing and running in developing those down to going shopping for the catering components. And then I'm also normally a part of reunions, often running the children's classes, who knows. So that's kind of the extent of the stuff that I physically do on the ground. Um, and then a lot of the remainder of the time it is creating resource is to support others that are providing ministry. So when I first took over this role, I contacted a lot of the congregations that were fortunate to have children in their midst. And so what kind of came out of that was that, um, many of them were happy to do children's ministries. However, the thought off prepping on planning and developing resources gave them a fair amount of anxiety, or it made it difficult for them to find somebody else to fill in if they were going away able to do it. I'm and so coming up with resource is that align theologically with the Community of Christ, as well as recognized that Australian context, Um, and that sometimes we like to distance ourselves a little bit from the U. S. Just to recognize our own roots and to reflect that in in the teachings and context.

Karin Peter:   15:38
 So I've been in your office, Kass, and I have seen piles of things, and I asked what some of them were and you said what? This is for this activity and have this pile for this activity. And I'm working on this over here. And it was just this wonderful array of things you were in the middle of.

Kass Unger :   15:59
Yes, that's that my office is a very crazy space. Um, that isn't often not very neat at all. However, I know exactly where everything is about it to us. Have lots of leftovers from different activities or bits and pieces. It's kind of like, OK, what can I do with some chalk? I've got some chalk here. What can we do? Well, uh, it's it's interesting to see when we then have children that come into the office. For whatever reason, they kind of be a line from my office because they know that there's fun activities and whether that's just building, um, little thoughts out of cups. I haven't probably 200 plastic cups that they can build a tower that stole of them themselves. Um, well, stance and stickers and all sorts of bits and pieces. So it's very interesting to see that how quickly the kids have kind of sounds the corner of my room and the creativity that they can come up with, which works well, because then I'm like, Okay, let's put that into a resource. They've been able to go, so we have some wool from Well, we can make this. Let's put that into a resource. Um, so, but yet that's definitely one of those aspects from that I have in there.

Karin Peter:   17:16
So you have the little kids, the primary kids, and then you participate. I'm assuming with the up to 12 level at reunions and that kind of thing. Um, I'm intrigued by the helping resource the other congregations that have kids, because I've heard that from congregations to where they're not sure what to use, what would be appropriately aligned with Community of Christ and where to find those things. So that's a terrific way to not just have those resource is but to make them appropriate for your Australian context

Kass Unger :   17:51
And what I guess one of those resource is that I'm making in the moment is kind of a monthly class, and it can, either, the way I've designed it is it can either be a kid's class on bits actually connected to the Lectionary themes and so you can use as a kid's class that, um, kind of partners with those lecturing things, but you can also pull elements out of it, so each one has kind of made up of multiple elements, and you can easily pull one of those elements at and use it in a traditional worship. Um, if that's kind of the aspect on that your congregation  has and therefore everybody, you can watch your video and answer some questions so everybody can do a little activity or a game in that that component that's still aligns with the lectionary material on it. That way, it's making it more inter gender intergenerational. I don't sit well on dso a lot of that kind of takes that into consideration that kids don't sit well. And so therefore, um, having activities and options, I'm that can either be done separately or collectively. If you've really got one kid. Sometimes it's easier to do that as a whole group and for everyone to learn from that is I find really beneficial.

Karin Peter:   19:05
 Yes, that is, um, one of the things that we have to work with this the challenge of having one child or having two children, but a disparate ages. Yeah. So, um, I agreed to getting the whole whole group to participate in is way more fun when you do it that way. Yeah,

Kass Unger :   19:24
In Australia, we have such a huge geographical area as well, and so I've had to kind of take that into consideration and make sure, um, a lot of this stuff has options for one or two kids if a parent doing at home. They can do an option with one or two kids or, if they are lucky, enough to have children in the congregation, and they can do it with a bit of a larger group. But taking that into consideration of ways to reach those that are geographically isolated in that space. And so just this week, I've put together a kid's Herald, so I guess Australia has the Australian Herald, which takes after the U. S. vision, but we've modified it with some Australian content. And so this is Ah, one page one page. I'm kind of sheet to help develop community amongst the kids that live around Australia that gets posted to  them. You could post it to them in the letterbox because who doesn't love mail and that way they can receive it directly. And it's got, like, a little recipe and a bio and a little game with something in it. But this is the 1st one I've just I'm sent out, and so I'm I'm looking forward to receiving some of the feedback, um, into relation to that and how if it helps kids that aren't connected to feel a little more connected and and recognize that they're not for gotten

Karin Peter:   20:52
Well, it contributes, that Worth of All Persons, doesn't it? That someone someone loves them outside of Mom and Dad that have to.

Kass Unger :   21:01
Yeah, yeah, somebody else, Somebody else cares and I guess particularly in this time of coronavirus, it's it's good to be able to get something in the letter box and have things to do. Um,

Karin Peter:   21:14
So you brought up something that we didn't touch on that might be helpful for our listeners to know. We have listeners from around the world. But we have, Ah, large proportion of our listeners are from the United States. And sometimes people in the US forget just how big Australia is on. So when we say mission center in the US, we might be talking about of several states that ban together. But the Australia Mission Center is a continent.

Kass Unger :   21:45
Yes, it not. Yes, yes. The Australian Mission Center is the whole continent, which is really not a lot smaller than the US. Um also looks tiny on a map. It really is very geographically large. In fact, to get from where I am on one coast to the congregation on the other coast It's about a 3.5 out plane ride. So their nearest congregation is a hour and a half plane ride from where they are. And so there is one congregation in Perth, so for them to feel isolated is very easy.

Karin Peter:   22:25
Definitely. So, listeners, No more complaining about the 40 minutes that you have to drive you, but to get to church or to a mission center event?  

Kass Unger :   22:37
Yes.  

Karin Peter:   22:38
So you have a wide variety of activities that you're engaged in with children. And I really want have a conversation with you later about your resource production because some of these ideas, um, are wonderful. And could we could borrow?

Kass Unger :   22:53
Yes, most definitely. I can always count on the Australian, um, Community of Christ website that under the kids ministries, um, so if you're looking for them, they are there.

Karin Peter:   23:04
Good to know. So our listeners go on the site at the end of this, I think I put down what that is so that people can find that for sure. Definitely. So with all that you've been doing and the different programs and keeping no statistics and analyzing as a good scientist would Yeah, what impact do you hope to have on the lives of the children that you meet in ministry? So maybe another way to say that would be when they are your age looking back at being a child in Community of Christ, what do you hope they remember?

Kass Unger :   23:38
Okay, I'm gonna use a little story to help explain this one.  When I was teaching, I was working in an old boys school and, um one we did an activity on a thing, like once a week that was trying to develop some sort of social consciousness. And so one of these weeks, we're looking at community and the intergenerational nature of it and one of the questions that we asked the group of teenage boys was looking at the different generations in their life, who did they have outside of their immediate family? So who did they know that we're the same age? Is that parents or their grand parents that provided them support on that they could go to if they needed help. And I was really astounded to discover that in my group of 30 boys, most of them didn't have anyone. Most of them couldn't think of other adults in their lives or even kids if they went the other direction on that, they had much to do with. And so I kind of programmed a little more. And I was like, what about like sporting coaches? Or um other like friends of your parents? Or  some trying to, like get them to think because I was working with teenagers boys, and they don't always so forthcoming with their answers. And the most that any of them could come up with was there was a couple that had older siblings that they could possibly go to their older siblings friends if they had an emergency, like needing somebody to buy them alcohol, but not actual legitimate emergency. I actually consumed me that there was so many people, or at least in this group, there was so many that had no support,  adult support outside of their immediate family. And so I guess, coming back to the question at hand. Um, for me, I guess that I hope the impact of children's ministries not necessarily my involvement, but overall, children's ministries, um, is that those children can recognize adults in their lives, recognize others in their lives that care about them, um, and that love them and that can help them if I need it, Um, and that they have a good enough relationship that they can go to them for support. And if they learn about God and and the church in that process, that's fine, but I hope that they kind of just come away with me and acceptance of who they are and a willingness to help others to find who they are.

Karin Peter:   26:43
Yeah, especially in this day and age. Yeah, where that's more and more difficult. Um, for young people, I appreciate. Thank you for sharing that story. So some of our listeners may be in the same situation as some of your congregations there in Australia with few children or, um, perhaps none that they would have to be prepared. So are there some best practices or maybe key learnings? We use those terms. We float them around the church where sharing ideas, things that you could share from your experience that might be just helpful little nuggets of advice or or practices for other people as they looked towards developing children's ministries where they are.

Kass Unger :   27:32
Yeah. Um, I coming back to that child and youth protection, um, process, making sure that the necessity of it, um, we make sure that we have a minimum of two registered child and youth workers at every activity that involves kids. Whether they're looking after the children or whether their own parents or they're still making sure, we have two registered  child and youth. Look, is, um is definitely best practice and kind of a great thing to establish as a foundation that unless we have that, we're not running a children's activity, which can be hard. Um, but yeah, having that in place, I guess the other thing working with kids is remaining flexible. Um, often the most fantastic activities that I can come up with that I think it's gonna be great. Their bored within three minutes. Where is if there's something that I'm like, Oh, this is a little dull, and they're happy doing it for 25 minutes. So you really with kids, you really need to be flexible. You don't know what they're gonna like, what they're not gonna like. So mix it up, kind of is where I would go change what's happening really often. Um, try and tap into things that they might already be interested in. Um, and then recognizing that it all kids learn and different in different ways. And so, um, trying to cater for, ah, variety kids are also really good at trying things that I new, so if you sound excited by something, they will give it a try. Um, because that's kind of the nature is just to give everything on option. Otherwise, it's kind of just about developing relationships, genuinely caring, genuinely listening, Um, understanding that the problems in their lives are big to them. Um And so whilst it might not seem big to an adult, um, understanding where they're coming from and listening to it, um helps to develop that report. And that's really, really important in children's ministries and getting them to involved into trust,

Karin Peter:   29:58
As with any ministry, the relationships, you know. So as you and I are visiting today, we are both in our homes, not so much by choice, but because the world is responding to the Coronavirus, the Covid-19 and so both in the U. S. And Australia, we have been advised to please stay home and many folks who are listening to us our home with their children. So what are some ideas for parents who may have run out of ideas for kids? But that would offer children's ministry at home that they could do at home. That's more than just taking up time, but that really is formative for kids in their identity as beloved Children of God.

Kass Unger :   30:50
Yeah, I really love picture books. Um, so kids stories  are fantastic, I guess, a lot of children's authorsrecognized that the big issues in life and have great ways of breaking them down and so reading stories with kids and discussing them, discussing this major themes and pulling them apart. A lot of children's stories kind of when you write them down about the essences of, how to be a decent human being, um, and and how to interact with other people and and how to deal with conflict. And so I guess one of things that I would really recommend is is reading stories with  kids on discussing them rather than just being a story to pass the time. What are the things? How do we relate those in our lives?  When have you being faced with these similar sort of, um, frustrations or conflicts in that in that process? And so this definitely some authors that I love of children's authors,  Julia Donaldson is ah English writer. That is phenomenal. She's best known for her work with the Gruffalo, but so many of her other stories, Um, like the Sail on the Whale on the Smartest Giant in Town, this question the squeeze. They have a phenomenal rhyme to them, but they also talk about generosity and gratitude and making, like never being too small to make a difference and so there's all these phenomenal books out there that you can really have a discussion with a kid about overcoming  fears or, well, what it's like to immigrate into a country where you don't speak the language. I think stories have the ability type in our minds to different people's perspectives, which is always a good thing. Um, it helps us to understand what other people are coming from, I was one of the easiest ways.

Karin Peter:   33:09
What you're describing sounds like a kid's book club. Almost. It's like you have to do with adults in a book club and and you you could actually do  online with several parents and kids or grandparents and kids and someone read the story and have a discussion, you know, and snacks, of course

Kass Unger :   33:30
It's definitely got potential of late I guess with us all stuck in a heart, homes. At the moment I've been creating some, that's a lie, I haven't been creating, I've developed concepts and I'm outsourcing the actual creativity. So one of their youth I have a lot to do with off what we have are calling community cards. So it's an opportunity for them to print it off to color it in and it's got little missing you messages and then to go and deliver those into their neighbors little boxes, Um, when they are allowed out for isolated walk around the neighborhood to kind of remind the kids and to focus them on others outside of this space and recognizing that there are others that, um, a struggling with with social isolation. And that's not just during these times, no, but outside of on mandate and social isolation, there's still those that that feel disconnected and so helping them tow contribute to their logic community is one of those activities that we have at the moment.

Karin Peter:   34:45
So I've been wanting to, um, actually ask you this. I wanted to ask you it earlier, but, uh, you've been a child and so you have participated in Children's minister and you talked a bit about that, that you remember the parents growing up, but now you're what we would call a practitioner of Children's Ministry, so how has this shaped informed you as a disciple?

Kass Unger :   35:16
Um I guess as a child, Children's Ministry is what kept me engaged in the church. It was people's intentional ministry to me and the child that caused me to stick around long enough, um, to develop my own discipleship and to seek God. And so it gave me a community to learn from and to struggle with. And so I think to me, that's what Children's Ministry gave, um, as a practitioner, for the longest time, I didn't want to be involved in children's ministries. Um, but children come very easily to me, and I recognize that's not the case with everyone. In fact, on there's a member in my local congregation that calls me the Pied Piper. And so whereas I see myself more as a mama dog, where is there's been a couple of times I remember being at a working bee and turning around and behind me was the eight year old. Behind her was the four year old behind her was the two year old, and we just kind of total arounds. Um, I'll kick our church grounds doing what needed to happen. Um and so I guess, but for me I need to remember that children are full of excitement and energy about everything, and they get done excited about learning that God and Jesus and experiencing communities of joy hope, love and peace. Um and so it helps me to remember that those things learning about God experiencing community doesn't have toe always be reverent. It doesn't have to always be serious. Um, and it doesn't have to be worried, like you can engage in noise, um, in so many different ways and in so many different experiences. And I think how children's ministries has shaped me is recognizing that even adults, um, learn and experience in so many amazing and creative ways, and that is just so much more evident in children. Um, because they haven't had social pressure squish them yet into a box. Um, and so and I can be, you can tell when they're excited to learn something when they're excited to be engaged in something. Um, and you get to see the little light bulbs go on when they finally fully understand a concept, or begin to understand the concept on, and I think that may that's very much shapes now, the way I try to do ministry for everyone, Um, I write a couple of the world church worships, um, every now, every each year they give me a couple and I find it really interesting when I talked to other Australians that plans planned wishes because they're like, Ah, did you drink this one? I'm like, why be like, Oh, I just had a very like you. Outside and flavor. We were doing something that was a little bit different, and they're like you can see how it would be more engaging for children and that those aspects that and that's just now become influenced in all of the ministry I do. It's It's definitely kind of a to and fro  process with children's ministries would feel happy being ministry or get to get to its other half to I still get to your ministry to adults. Um, the Australian Mission Center is not large enough that I, um, can really focus just on a on a small band. It's just that it's part of it. 

Karin Peter:   39:10
I wanna thank you for taking time to visit with us today, and I just needed to ask before we close. Is there any, do you have any last thoughts or or something that you meant to share earlier and didn't?

Kass Unger :   39:25
Um not really. I guess I have minimum requirements are that a congregation should, um should have to show children that they care about and number one of those is having as many people as possible be registered child and youth workers is even if they I have nothing to do with ministry to children. It just says we care enough about you to ever bothered doing this training to make sure that we have a safe space. Um, it just, um says a lot about the importance of children's ministries and that you think it's valuable. Another minimum that I have for a congregation is that they know the names of the kids. Like if there's a kid that semi regularly attends your congregation and I'm talking four times in your you should know them by name. Even if there's 40 kids, you should have no most of them by name, because it just says that they as an individual matter enough for you, to have learnt their name. Um, if you know other stuff about them as well, that's huge. But to be able to go Good morning, Sara, and know them by name, um, is important. Thank you. It's important to the parents and the community that they belonged to. And I guess my said point would be accepting that kids allowed like they're really loud. And if you want kids involved on a Sunday morning, particularly in a traditional context, it's important for the adults to remember that kids are gonna be noisy. They get excited and they forget where they are, um, and he can't help them to feel welcome in church if they're being constantly met with judgmental glances. And she pushes, Um, so it's really important of the adults remember the church is loud. That kid's are loud, and when church and kids allowed together, then they can start to feel safe and welcome in that space.

Karin Peter:   41:44
Those are great criteria for congregations, Kass. I made a note of them to include in the future the youth protection for safety, knowing people's name, is it not the hospitality interaction. And yes, kids are loud and they will be disruptive. And I have been in too many congregations with no kids. I'd much rather have the disruption.  

Kass Unger :   42:11
Yeah, yeah.  

Karin Peter:   42:13
well, for our listeners. If you have a question for caste or if you'd like to reach out to her, you can do so through the Australia Mission Center website, which you confined at cofchrist.com.au. Those are lower case when you are on the website. If you scroll all the way to the bottom and click contact, you will find a cast hungry in the staff listings. And as she said, the resource is our on the Australian Mission Center website under Children's Ministry. So thank you not just for being with us today, but for the good ideas and the sharing of your print ideas that others might use as well.  

Kass Unger :   42:59
No problem.  

Karin Peter:   43:01
So this has been an episode of Sodas and Steamers where we talk about Children's ministry today. We've been with Kass Unger from Sydney, Australia. I'm Karin Peter. Thanks for listening.

Josh Mangelson :   43:12
Thanks for listening to Project Zion  podcast. Subscribe to our podcast on Apple Podcast, Stitcher or whatever podcast streaming service you use. And while you're there, give us a five star rating. Project Zion Podcast is sponsored by Latter-day Seeker Ministries of Community of Christ. The views and opinions expressed in this episode are of those speaking and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Latter-day Seeker Ministries or Community of Christ. Music has been graciously provided by Dave Heinz.