Apple Podcasts
Spotify
YouTube
Most members of Community of Christ are familiar with W. Wallace Smith and his son Wallace B Smith, who served as Presidents of Community of Christ, but we don't always get to hear from church leader's families. Today we've invited Julie Smith, daughter of Wallace B., to share some of her experiences growing up in the church with her grandpa and dad in church leadership. Julie shares her reflections on watching her dad become President of the church as well as her thoughts on the revelation her dad is best known for: Section 156 of the Doctrine and Covenants that provided for the ordination of women and the building of the Temple.
Thanks for listening to Project Zion Podcast!
Follow us on Facebook and Instagram!
Intro and Outro music used with permission:
“For Everyone Born,” Community of Christ Sings #285. Music © 2006 Brian Mann, admin. General Board of Global Ministries t/a GBGMusik, 458 Ponce de Leon Avenue, Atlanta, GA 30308. copyright@umcmission.org
“The Trees of the Field,” Community of Christ Sings # 645, Music © 1975 Stuart Dauerman, Lillenas Publishing Company (admin. Music Services).
All music for this episode was performed by Dr. Jan Kraybill, and produced by Chad Godfrey.
NOTE: The series that make up the Project Zion Podcast explore the unique spiritual and theological gifts Community of Christ offers for today's world. Although Project Zion Podcast is a Ministry of Community of Christ. The views and opinions expressed in this episode are those speaking and do not necessarily reflect the official policy or position of Community of Christ.
WEBVTT
00:00:10.720 --> 00:00:10.720
[inaudible].
00:00:17.820 --> 00:00:20.010
Welcome to the Project Zion podcast.
00:00:20.309 --> 00:00:27.570
This podcast explores the unique spiritual and theological gifts Community of Christ offers for today's world.
00:00:30.530 --> 00:00:30.530
[inaudible]
00:00:33.789 --> 00:00:35.950
Welcome to Project Zion podcast.
00:00:36.130 --> 00:00:37.630
I'm your host, Karin Peter.
00:00:38.140 --> 00:00:42.219
Today I'm visiting with Julie Smith from Independence, Missouri.
00:00:42.460 --> 00:00:53.619
Julie grew up in Independence where her grandfather and then her father served as president of the RLDS church, which later became Community of Christ.
00:00:54.009 --> 00:00:54.670
Hi Julie.
00:00:55.000 --> 00:00:55.869
Hi Karin!
00:00:56.469 --> 00:00:59.229
Thank you so much for joining us today.
00:00:59.289 --> 00:01:07.879
I know this wasn't your chosen kind of way to share your story, but I appreciate you making an exception and talking with Project Zion.
00:01:08.480 --> 00:01:10.150
Well, thank you for asking me.
00:01:10.359 --> 00:01:11.260
Absolutely.
00:01:11.620 --> 00:01:35.290
So we're just going to kind of jump into this because Julie it had to be really interesting growing up in independence, Missouri, which is the kind of headquarters of the church and a largest community, I think, in a single city of Community of Christ folks in the US so we've got a couple of questions about that and then we'll kind of move on to some other areas of interest.
00:01:35.290 --> 00:01:51.250
So first, how old were you when you first realized your grandfather, for our listeners would be W Wallace Smith, when you realized your grandfather was serving as Prophet President of this faith community of what you were apart?
00:01:53.079 --> 00:02:02.409
I wish I remember like the exact moment, like it was some big Aha moment, but I don't remember how old I was.
00:02:03.129 --> 00:02:05.319
It was just a part of our family.
00:02:05.379 --> 00:02:09.969
I mean it was, it seemed like just like any other family.
00:02:10.050 --> 00:02:16.689
I didn't know what my grandpa did, particularly anymore than most kids know what their grandpa's do.
00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:18.639
When I was maybe eight or nine.
00:02:18.640 --> 00:02:31.060
I remember going to communion during conference and seeing grandpa up on the stage, but I don't know that I understood exactly what all that meant.
00:02:31.061 --> 00:02:38.050
Being President or Prophet of a faith community, what that meant or what all that entailed.
00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:52.270
So the short answer is, I don't remember how old I was, but it was just growing up and in my family it was just a normal part of our family.
00:02:52.270 --> 00:03:00.550
So to me it didn't seem like anything different than, you know, other kids did their families probably.
00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:13.129
So I would imagine that when your father became Prophet President of the church, by that time you would have been a little bit older.
00:03:13.310 --> 00:03:19.189
What did that mean to you or what did he tell you when he was going to become Prophet President?
00:03:19.191 --> 00:03:20.900
Did he have a conversation with your family?
00:03:22.349 --> 00:03:24.030
Yes, that I do remember.
00:03:24.629 --> 00:03:37.889
I was 14 at that time and I remember my dad sitting down with me and my younger sister, u m, my older sister was already in college, so he must've talked to her at some other time.
00:03:37.890 --> 00:03:42.240
And I remember my younger sister and I, she was two years younger than me.
00:03:42.900 --> 00:03:52.770
It was probably in March of 1976, he was set apart as president designate that year at conference.
00:03:53.430 --> 00:03:57.659
And I think we were k ind o f shocked.
00:03:57.900 --> 00:04:10.349
And I know that sounds weird, but we, like I s aid, it didn't occur to me that that was kind of a, a legacy of our family.
00:04:10.469 --> 00:04:19.889
And I know I sound really dumb because you're thinking, well Duh, it's very obvious where this is going, but my dad was an eye doctor.
00:04:19.891 --> 00:04:26.670
I mean, he was an ophthalmologist and that's what my dad did when someone asked me, w hat'd your dad do?
00:04:26.670 --> 00:04:27.870
He's an ophthalmologist.
00:04:28.259 --> 00:04:37.829
And so I didn't see the handwriting on the wall very at a very early age or even then I guess.
00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:47.850
So it was a little bit shocking and I think I had questions like, well what does this mean?
00:04:47.850 --> 00:04:49.410
And like, what are you going to do?
00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:51.149
You mean you're not going to be a doctor now?
00:04:51.180 --> 00:04:58.079
And you know, those kind of just more logistical questions like how does this work?
00:04:58.081 --> 00:05:00.509
You know, I didn't go to the office every day.
00:05:00.980 --> 00:05:09.209
Um, I think it was more being sort of a, you know, has teenagers are pretty self centered.
00:05:09.439 --> 00:05:10.800
How is this going to affect me?
00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:17.009
How, how's this gonna wreck my life or you know, change things for me and our family?
00:05:17.011 --> 00:05:26.129
And we were a close family so I wasn't used to my dad being away for long periods of time.
00:05:26.610 --> 00:05:33.810
But he said that, you know, he was going to have to travel and he was going to be going to Africa and Australia places far, far away.
00:05:34.589 --> 00:05:39.689
And so I could see that that was gonna have an impact on our family.
00:05:40.379 --> 00:05:51.750
But I think I, I knew that, I don't know, somewhere maybe deep down that that was something that he needed to do.
00:05:51.810 --> 00:06:11.069
I mean, it, I don't even know how much of a choice it would have her to give up something that he loved and to go, you know, completely different direction.
00:06:12.670 --> 00:06:14.560
I think that w ould've had been really hard.
00:06:15.069 --> 00:06:15.459
Yeah.
00:06:16.569 --> 00:06:19.449
So how did it begin to impact you?
00:06:19.451 --> 00:06:27.939
You said teenagers are kind of, we're self centered when we're teenagers and so of course you would wonder, what does this mean for me and for the family?
00:06:28.540 --> 00:06:32.439
When did you first notice that it did begin to impact you?
00:06:32.470 --> 00:06:34.089
What, what began to happen?
00:06:34.091 --> 00:06:35.560
Did people treat you differently?
00:06:35.560 --> 00:06:38.230
Did you feel there were expectations placed on you?
00:06:39.660 --> 00:06:46.620
Well, the first thing immediately was, like I said, there would be times that he was gone for a long time and mom would go with him sometimes.
00:06:46.620 --> 00:06:52.680
And so we would be left with a babysitter and two of them, very nice woman.
00:06:52.769 --> 00:06:59.220
I mean, I, she was an older woman, although she's probably only like 50 at the time, which is not old.
00:06:59.221 --> 00:07:05.699
I just want to emphasize that, but at the time it seemed like this little lady was taking care of us and she was perfectly nice.
00:07:06.180 --> 00:07:07.379
Her name was Mrs.
00:07:07.379 --> 00:07:10.709
Moore and she would make the same chicken, we call it Mrs.
00:07:10.709 --> 00:07:11.250
Moore's Chicken.
00:07:11.850 --> 00:07:14.399
She would make it all the time, you know, eight.
00:07:14.939 --> 00:07:22.139
And I remember one time that they went to Australia because Australia, they have the reunions at Christmas time.
00:07:22.920 --> 00:07:29.550
And so they were gone at Christmas and that was the worst Christmas ever, at least for me.
00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:31.800
And they said that it wasn't good for them.
00:07:31.829 --> 00:07:35.250
I mean, you know, being at the reunion, I'm sure that was nice and all that.
00:07:35.250 --> 00:07:43.560
But being away from the family at that time was, is just, you know, it didn't seem like Christmas at all.
00:07:43.740 --> 00:07:46.529
And so there were things like that.
00:07:47.970 --> 00:08:01.230
But as a kid we, we went to a really supportive congregation in the Independence area that I had gone to since probably fifth or sixth grade.
00:08:02.610 --> 00:08:05.250
And the people there didn't make us feel weird.
00:08:05.459 --> 00:08:10.709
I mean it, we were just the Smith family that went to church with them.
00:08:11.699 --> 00:08:18.449
Um, and if they did feel weird, they didn't make it seem so obvious to us.
00:08:19.050 --> 00:08:30.120
So we would just be involved in the congregation like most families would, except dad wouldn't be there a lot, but my mom would always take us, you know, and we, we'd go to church.
00:08:31.779 --> 00:08:39.980
When we, when he was first set apart, his president designate, we went on this, I call it the European tour.
00:08:40.429 --> 00:08:47.149
He was just trying to get exposed to the church and to the church people.
00:08:47.150 --> 00:08:52.429
And so my younger sister and I went, I don't know, well, my older was sister with doing all this time.
00:08:52.431 --> 00:08:53.690
I don't know how she got out of it.
00:08:53.691 --> 00:09:03.700
But anyway, we had to go on this trip with mom and dad and it was to England and France and Germany and the Netherlands.
00:09:04.210 --> 00:09:12.610
And so we would meet up with church people and they drive us around and we'd have to go to your church at a thing.
00:09:12.610 --> 00:09:16.419
And then we'd have to go to another church and there's a lot of going to church.
00:09:17.259 --> 00:09:25.059
And we, we went to Dunfield House, which is, you know, that were the reunions happen in England.
00:09:25.539 --> 00:09:26.590
It was really cool.
00:09:26.860 --> 00:09:32.860
I liked it, but we, they served hot tea and like the hottest day ever.
00:09:33.370 --> 00:09:37.210
And so that was some culture shock.
00:09:37.299 --> 00:09:39.820
From Independence, Missouri where t ea is cold.
00:09:40.270 --> 00:09:49.659
I know! Tea is served cold and they had steak and kidney pie, which thank God my mom said we didn't have to eat it.
00:09:50.740 --> 00:09:55.629
Um, so there was some things like that that, you know, uh, really missed home.
00:09:56.080 --> 00:09:59.860
I'm hoping we don't get letters from our British listeners who reflect on kidney pie.
00:09:59.590 --> 00:10:13.360
Oh yes, all the lovely cuisine! U m, and, and I think that people were kind of curious about what kind of family is this?
00:10:14.019 --> 00:10:29.350
So I think there was some, it wasn't, I don't think it was overt, but you kind of felt like you were little bit in a, in the limelight and under a microscope a little bit.
00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:45.159
So I think we felt like we really needed to behave, you know, no K emper tantrums, you know, like I don't to have steak and kidney pie! And so you, you kind of felt like you needed to be on your best behavior.
00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:49.360
But we, I mean we, we met lots of people.
00:10:49.360 --> 00:11:00.220
We went to Berlin in Germany and we stayed with, um, a family that had two kids and they were listening to the Fleetwood Mac album then.
00:11:00.221 --> 00:11:07.960
And you know, we listened to Fleetwood Mac they didn't speak much English and I spoke zero German.
00:11:07.961 --> 00:11:13.240
So, you know, we just connected in ways like through music.
00:11:13.269 --> 00:11:21.490
And so that was cool and different places that we went, we would find places to connect with people.
00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:26.919
You know, just, there seemed to be always some something we can connect about.
00:11:27.850 --> 00:11:36.669
When we went to France, we stayed in this really small hotel and there was a bathroom in the hall.
00:11:36.671 --> 00:11:41.440
You had to go into the shared bathroom and it had a couple stalls in it.
00:11:41.980 --> 00:11:46.419
And I was in there and I heard someone come in and it was a man.
00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:49.149
And I freaked out.
00:11:49.179 --> 00:11:53.110
I mean, that was not anything that would ever been on my radar screen.
00:11:53.269 --> 00:11:55.909
You share a bathroom with someone of the opposite sex.
00:11:56.360 --> 00:12:11.639
So I sat in there as quiet as I could until they left, and you know, I'm running out yelling, there's a man in the bathroom, there's a man in the bathroom! So I was fairly sheltered, we'll say, growing up here in Independence, Missouri.
00:12:12.299 --> 00:12:20.490
So it definitely broaden my, um, perspective on the world and culture.
00:12:21.210 --> 00:12:24.600
So I really look back on that trip.
00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:27.360
I mean, I have lots of stories on that trip.
00:12:28.049 --> 00:12:35.610
I did a, a testimony in a church in Germany and Johnny Stebno interpreted for me.
00:12:35.659 --> 00:12:38.610
I had never done anything like that before.
00:12:39.299 --> 00:12:49.710
I fell down the steps at one of the congregations in Germany that had this really wining the wooden staircase and I just went, thumb, thumb, thumb, down the steps.
00:12:49.769 --> 00:12:52.259
Oh my God! We broke the daughter of the prophet!
00:12:52.289 --> 00:13:06.000
I know! U m, so luckily I wasn't too damaged, but, u m, you know, they kinda saw just us as h ave a regular family and I hope that's what they saw.
00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:18.149
I don't know what they were thinking, but we, we didn't, you know, have halos or any special powers or anything like that.
00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:25.980
So they just, uh, kinda us, just regular kids now.
00:13:25.980 --> 00:13:37.830
I hope they weren't too disappointed, but my dad always has this stateliness I don't know how else to describe it about him.
00:13:38.370 --> 00:13:45.539
That gives you the sense that he really took, he took his position very seriously.
00:13:46.769 --> 00:13:54.870
Um, and he wanted to be a good leader and he wanted to, you know, really embrace what that was going to mean for him.
00:13:56.279 --> 00:14:01.049
Um, even though I can't imagine he had any idea what it would really be like.
00:14:01.799 --> 00:14:11.309
So even with us just being a regular family, I think people could sense that dad did have a calling.
00:14:11.700 --> 00:14:21.419
I mean, and I, and I think they appreciated getting to know him a little bit and to kind of realize that.
00:14:22.889 --> 00:14:34.980
So Julia, I want to talk a little bit about, about one of the things that became a kind of a, a historical marker of your dad's tenure as Prophet President of the church.
00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:49.679
But before I do that, another question came to mind and that is, at what point did you begin to sense or, uh, realize kind of the historical legacy that is your family?
00:14:52.929 --> 00:15:05.110
I think as part of Sunday school, um, we had some, we talked about the book of Mormon and we talked about Joseph Smith.
00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:09.440
And so I remember hearing about that.
00:15:10.370 --> 00:15:14.750
Um, and, but maybe still not really getting it.
00:15:14.870 --> 00:15:16.220
I mean, I don't know.
00:15:16.221 --> 00:15:23.179
It was probably, you know, I was in junior high at the, at the time that dad became president.
00:15:23.210 --> 00:15:38.509
And, um, I, I don't remember thinking that this is, it's going to be something that is just too weird or, you know, I don't know.
00:15:38.510 --> 00:15:41.360
I didn't feel like it was weird at all.
00:15:42.470 --> 00:15:58.700
Um, and I don't know if I should have been more, um, I dunno, awed by it, but it, I, I was kinda hearing it maybe like other people did.
00:15:58.830 --> 00:16:14.389
And just trying to, um, figure out for myself what, what this story meant and, and how is that, is that going to be part of something that I believe or not believe?
00:16:14.390 --> 00:16:25.340
And I just, I went through it probably like a lot of people do when, when they're trying to discover their own theology and their own belief system.
00:16:26.980 --> 00:16:32.590
It's wonderful that that's the way that you were able to go about that.
00:16:32.740 --> 00:16:41.139
That it wasn't something that was told to you as you have to believe a certain way or you have to think a certain way, but that you are allowed to struggle with it like everyone else does.
00:16:41.799 --> 00:17:10.509
I remember going to, we were preparing for witnessing weekend, I dunno if you remember those, that the church would have like youth groups go to a particular area and like go door to door and handout flyers that they were having a church service, um, and supposed to kind of witness to the people that we were going to in the neighborhoods being a 70, you may have experienced,
00:17:10.630 --> 00:17:12.430
I have experienced those!
00:17:13.779 --> 00:17:28.539
But in preparation for that, which I really give our youth leaders a lot of credit for making us think ahead of time what we would say to people than just throwing us in and saying, go, you know, talk to these people without ever having thought of it.
00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:42.640
But I remember thinking, and in our church even back when I was in junior high and high school, we still far ahead that one true church bent.
00:17:43.299 --> 00:18:12.460
Um, and so it started to kind of bothered me that we were I'll even say arrogant enough to say that we were the one true church and go to someone else that maybe was involved in a church or you know, their life experience had brought him to a particular place for me to come in and say, no, whatever experience you've had is invalid.
00:18:12.700 --> 00:18:16.359
And now what I am telling you is the only valid thing.
00:18:17.500 --> 00:18:23.740
Um, so I had a real hard time with that and I think we struggled with that as a church generally at some point.
00:18:24.339 --> 00:18:39.880
But just personally I started to wonder what made us so special that we thought we had all the answers or that only way to find Jesus was through this church.
00:18:40.420 --> 00:19:06.190
And so I remember kind of starting down the path where I really wanted to explore that and think how, how can I be a part of something that is, is important to me, but in a way that I don't feel like it's, it's being that one true churchy kind of way.
00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:26.859
So I remember starting to think about that and as I was a young adult, became involved in, um, what we call the young adult seminar at that time, which really started exploring theology and history and all different things to try to open up.
00:19:28.180 --> 00:19:33.099
Um, just some other avenues that I hadn't previously thought of.
00:19:33.220 --> 00:19:52.390
And I appreciate that experience a lot and it has, has brought me to, uh, a better understanding or at least a more open understanding of what religion can and, and can't be for people.
00:19:54.039 --> 00:19:56.880
So, um, thank you for sharing.
00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:17.789
Yeah, that's, um, a wonderful insight into how, how you experience, um, what many people experienced in kind of growing up and coming of age and, and I'm beginning to reflect theologically, especially as the church transition from one perspective to another.
00:20:18.269 --> 00:20:18.750
Right.
00:20:19.049 --> 00:20:27.509
So I want to talk a little bit about the, uh, the bringing forth of what we call Section 156 of the Doctrine and Covenants.
00:20:27.510 --> 00:20:32.069
But I want to, to talk about it kind of through your lens.
00:20:32.070 --> 00:20:41.160
So as you grew up, you did so with the knowledge that being female you would not serve, um, in a priesthood office.
00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:46.170
So many of us grew up with that perspective.
00:20:46.930 --> 00:21:04.180
So as the church began to have dialog about women, um, in priesthood, which happened extensively even before Section 156, people were talking about it and submitting priesthood calls to their jurisdictions for women.
00:21:04.900 --> 00:21:13.000
So what, um, what did you think about this and the conversations that the church was having?
00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:23.099
Well, I want to comment a little bit about when I realized about who could and could not be in priesthood.
00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:36.299
In the congregation where I grew up, it seemed that almost every boy when they became like in high school would get called to the priesthood, like as a deacon.
00:21:36.660 --> 00:21:38.099
Like it was almost automatic.
00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:46.769
And I knew these boys and I didn't think that they were good candidates.
00:21:47.569 --> 00:21:51.119
I mean, they were mean and they said really nasty things.
00:21:51.121 --> 00:21:53.880
And I was thinking, now wait a minute.
00:21:53.881 --> 00:22:00.900
If this really is what priesthood is what, I don't understand why these boys are getting called to this?
00:22:01.170 --> 00:22:09.690
And when I'm not able to be called to it, I mean, I felt like that something was wrong with this system.
00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:14.759
Um, but that's just from, you know, kids' perspective.
00:22:14.760 --> 00:22:20.279
I didn't think about, oh, there's potential and they're going to grow into it and it or whatever.
00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:31.200
Um, at the time I was just thinking, man, the, these don't seem like what I would think would be candidates for priesthood.
00:22:31.740 --> 00:22:34.650
And of course, again, well I could do way better than that.
00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:37.170
And the feminist began to come out.
00:22:37.740 --> 00:22:38.430
Right.
00:22:39.059 --> 00:22:43.170
U m, so, and that was like in high school.
00:22:43.740 --> 00:22:54.839
And then I went to college and I got married very early when I was 19 and we moved away from the area and we moved to North Carolina.
00:22:55.559 --> 00:23:02.730
And in North Carolina, they were not having this d ialogue that you speak of.
00:23:03.380 --> 00:23:08.730
And I was not really aware of it.
00:23:09.329 --> 00:23:20.670
I didn't know that women had been called to the priesthood and in other areas or that, you know, there might be this, t here's kind of rumbling in the church.
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:25.980
The people in North Carolina were really great group of people.
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:32.670
U m, they, they had been an integrated congregation for decades.
00:23:32.670 --> 00:23:38.369
They had black and white families going to church together for a long time and didn't think anything about it.
00:23:38.371 --> 00:23:40.079
And this is, you know, in the south.
00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:56.599
And so in that way, it was quite a progressive congregation and also it was so small that, you know, they had almost everyone being in charge of a service, you know, if you could plan it, great.
00:23:56.601 --> 00:23:57.859
We'd love you to.
00:23:58.910 --> 00:24:08.329
Um, and so it, it didn't seem so formal on who could do what in that congregation.
00:24:09.230 --> 00:24:18.019
And I think I'm thankful for that because I felt like I could do lots of things and with no one's saying, oh no, no, you can't do that.
00:24:18.920 --> 00:24:30.259
Although, you know, of course there weren't any women that were in the priesthood there, but I was not all that, I don't know.
00:24:30.380 --> 00:24:41.150
I wasn't, didn't feel like I was an activist saying, you know, holding placards and marching or anything saying we want priesthood or anything like that.
00:24:41.150 --> 00:24:45.049
So I was kind of living in my own world.
00:24:45.050 --> 00:25:00.200
I was going to school there, um, in North Carolina at Chapel Hill and kind of far removed from Independence and I think were maybe a lot of that was going on.
00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:09.259
Um, so I, I can't say that I was a part of the dialogue.
00:25:10.220 --> 00:25:29.599
So I remember in 1984 when, when that section came, well, it wasn't a section then, but whenever that was brought to the church, my dad called me ahead of time because he knew it was gonna be a big deal.
00:25:29.720 --> 00:25:32.839
He knew that there was gonna be some backlash.
00:25:33.079 --> 00:25:39.980
He knew that it was probably going to wind up in some way on the news, however, however that might come out.
00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:50.059
And he called me and we were living in North Carolina at that time, um, to tell me what he was planning to do.
00:25:51.349 --> 00:25:59.420
And I think there was a letter that he prepared for the church ahead of time or maybe was after, I don't know.
00:25:59.420 --> 00:26:07.190
But there was some letter and he had said what he was planning to do.
00:26:07.849 --> 00:26:16.970
And when he called to tell me that again, being so dumb, I was shocked.
00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:20.119
You know, I'm like, oh, this is happening?
00:26:20.121 --> 00:26:26.240
And I, I didn't really expect it at that time.
00:26:26.420 --> 00:26:28.309
I didn't know what's happening.
00:26:28.310 --> 00:26:41.420
And believe it or not, we didn't sit around the dinner table discussing what revelations were coming on the church or frankly, issues in the church at all.
00:26:42.259 --> 00:26:52.769
And looking back, I think that was intentional on my parents' part to try to keep our family as normal as could be.
00:26:53.430 --> 00:27:00.099
And so it wasn't, it, it wasn't weird that he would wait and tell him.
00:27:00.150 --> 00:27:06.779
I mean, he told me ahead of time, but you know, not tell me like two years in advance this was going to be coming or anything like that.
00:27:07.289 --> 00:27:09.690
Plus he probably didn't trust me that I'd keep my mouth shut.
00:27:09.691 --> 00:27:17.160
So I, I was, I was really shocked and surprised.
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:25.740
But look back, I, I can't even imagine how that must've felt for him.
00:27:27.210 --> 00:27:45.299
Um, knowing that it was going to be so diversive and knowing that he was, he was going to have a very hard, um, time with the church in the wake of that.
00:27:46.380 --> 00:27:48.539
But it was pivotal.
00:27:48.900 --> 00:27:51.240
It was pivotal for me.
00:27:51.779 --> 00:27:53.250
It was pivotal for the church.
00:27:53.250 --> 00:27:55.109
It was pivotal for women.
00:27:56.009 --> 00:28:03.089
And I think I shared with you that my dad turned 90 in July and we wrote letters to him.
00:28:03.090 --> 00:28:35.369
My sisters and I wrote letters to him and I reminded him of that when he called me to tell me about that and how much that impacted me and that I was so proud of him and respected him so much, sorry, and was very emotional.
00:28:36.509 --> 00:28:54.789
Um, that he was willing to do that and to, really bring the church to a place where it needed to go.
00:28:56.019 --> 00:29:08.200
And as hard as it was for him to take that step, it really meant a lot to me personally.
00:29:08.259 --> 00:29:14.740
And it meant I know a lot to other women and there's probably women that have expressed that to him.
00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:32.960
But it was, it was something that had to happen in order, I think for me and many people to even want to be a part of this faith community, to continue to be a part of this faith community.
00:29:33.890 --> 00:29:37.460
And I know there's other issues that people feel the same way about.
00:29:39.289 --> 00:29:57.509
Um, but for me that so important and it's, it's still is impactful and I am so, so thankful that I am a part of a faith community where that is a honored.
00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:02.039
You said it still is impactful.
00:30:02.040 --> 00:30:03.599
It is in ways.
00:30:03.950 --> 00:30:27.509
Um, I don't think anybody realized at the time many of our listeners come from the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and many of them are women who are astounded at the way community of Christ has been able to address the ordination of women.
00:30:27.510 --> 00:30:37.829
And though it was painful to work through that and to move on a journey, it continues to impact their lives as well.
00:30:38.250 --> 00:30:41.519
And I'm not sure anybody would have seen that coming.
00:30:42.049 --> 00:30:42.339
Right.
00:30:42.779 --> 00:30:43.740
I don't think so.
00:30:44.609 --> 00:30:46.259
So it was a difficult time.
00:30:46.720 --> 00:31:01.019
Um, we don't need to go into, um, into that other than to ask, um, what was it like for you to watch your dad kind of weather this storm?
00:31:03.259 --> 00:31:05.599
I often was angry.
00:31:06.049 --> 00:31:26.509
I, I couldn't understand why people didn't get it, how they could still say no women are not worthy or are not called or are not good enough or however you they want to say.
00:31:27.859 --> 00:31:29.569
Um, I couldn't accept that.
00:31:30.410 --> 00:31:36.710
Um, and it was really difficult for me to be around people that felt that way.
00:31:37.579 --> 00:32:14.450
And I, I know it's Cliche, but I was very intolerant of intolerance and I wanted to be able to help dad in some way, but I don't know that there was anything really that I could do only to say that I am in full support and are many that are in full support and that will continue to be advocates for that change to, to happen.
00:32:16.390 --> 00:32:26.440
So when you look back at that time, um, 156 was pivotal in so many lives, what do you think is the biggest legacy of that when you look at the Church today?
00:32:28.009 --> 00:32:41.329
I think that it's able to stand up as a church and for me as a member and say that we believe in the worth of all persons and be able to back it up.
00:00:10.720 --> 00:00:10.720
00:00:17.820 --> 00:00:20.010
00:00:20.309 --> 00:00:27.570
00:00:30.530 --> 00:00:30.530
00:00:33.789 --> 00:00:35.950
00:00:36.130 --> 00:00:37.630
00:00:38.140 --> 00:00:42.219
00:00:42.460 --> 00:00:53.619
00:00:54.009 --> 00:00:54.670
00:00:55.000 --> 00:00:55.869
00:00:56.469 --> 00:00:59.229
00:00:59.289 --> 00:01:07.879
00:01:08.480 --> 00:01:10.150
00:01:10.359 --> 00:01:11.260
00:01:11.620 --> 00:01:35.290
00:01:35.290 --> 00:01:51.250
00:01:53.079 --> 00:02:02.409
00:02:03.129 --> 00:02:05.319
00:02:05.379 --> 00:02:09.969
00:02:10.050 --> 00:02:16.689
00:02:16.960 --> 00:02:18.639
00:02:18.640 --> 00:02:31.060
00:02:31.061 --> 00:02:38.050
00:02:38.800 --> 00:02:52.270
00:02:52.270 --> 00:03:00.550
00:03:02.080 --> 00:03:13.129
00:03:13.310 --> 00:03:19.189
00:03:19.191 --> 00:03:20.900
00:03:22.349 --> 00:03:24.030
00:03:24.629 --> 00:03:37.889
00:03:37.890 --> 00:03:42.240
00:03:42.900 --> 00:03:52.770
00:03:53.430 --> 00:03:57.659
00:03:57.900 --> 00:04:10.349
00:04:10.469 --> 00:04:19.889
00:04:19.891 --> 00:04:26.670
00:04:26.670 --> 00:04:27.870
00:04:28.259 --> 00:04:37.829
00:04:38.399 --> 00:04:47.850
00:04:47.850 --> 00:04:49.410
00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:51.149
00:04:51.180 --> 00:04:58.079
00:04:58.081 --> 00:05:00.509
00:05:00.980 --> 00:05:09.209
00:05:09.439 --> 00:05:10.800
00:05:10.800 --> 00:05:17.009
00:05:17.011 --> 00:05:26.129
00:05:26.610 --> 00:05:33.810
00:05:34.589 --> 00:05:39.689
00:05:40.379 --> 00:05:51.750
00:05:51.810 --> 00:06:11.069
00:06:12.670 --> 00:06:14.560
00:06:15.069 --> 00:06:15.459
00:06:16.569 --> 00:06:19.449
00:06:19.451 --> 00:06:27.939
00:06:28.540 --> 00:06:32.439
00:06:32.470 --> 00:06:34.089
00:06:34.091 --> 00:06:35.560
00:06:35.560 --> 00:06:38.230
00:06:39.660 --> 00:06:46.620
00:06:46.620 --> 00:06:52.680
00:06:52.769 --> 00:06:59.220
00:06:59.221 --> 00:07:05.699
00:07:06.180 --> 00:07:07.379
00:07:07.379 --> 00:07:10.709
00:07:10.709 --> 00:07:11.250
00:07:11.850 --> 00:07:14.399
00:07:14.939 --> 00:07:22.139
00:07:22.920 --> 00:07:29.550
00:07:29.759 --> 00:07:31.800
00:07:31.829 --> 00:07:35.250
00:07:35.250 --> 00:07:43.560
00:07:43.740 --> 00:07:46.529
00:07:47.970 --> 00:08:01.230
00:08:02.610 --> 00:08:05.250
00:08:05.459 --> 00:08:10.709
00:08:11.699 --> 00:08:18.449
00:08:19.050 --> 00:08:30.120
00:08:31.779 --> 00:08:39.980
00:08:40.429 --> 00:08:47.149
00:08:47.150 --> 00:08:52.429
00:08:52.431 --> 00:08:53.690
00:08:53.691 --> 00:09:03.700
00:09:04.210 --> 00:09:12.610
00:09:12.610 --> 00:09:16.419
00:09:17.259 --> 00:09:25.059
00:09:25.539 --> 00:09:26.590
00:09:26.860 --> 00:09:32.860
00:09:33.370 --> 00:09:37.210
00:09:37.299 --> 00:09:39.820
00:09:40.270 --> 00:09:49.659
00:09:50.740 --> 00:09:55.629
00:09:56.080 --> 00:09:59.860
00:09:59.590 --> 00:10:13.360
00:10:14.019 --> 00:10:29.350
00:10:30.279 --> 00:10:45.159
00:10:46.000 --> 00:10:49.360
00:10:49.360 --> 00:11:00.220
00:11:00.221 --> 00:11:07.960
00:11:07.961 --> 00:11:13.240
00:11:13.269 --> 00:11:21.490
00:11:21.759 --> 00:11:26.919
00:11:27.850 --> 00:11:36.669
00:11:36.671 --> 00:11:41.440
00:11:41.980 --> 00:11:46.419
00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:49.149
00:11:49.179 --> 00:11:53.110
00:11:53.269 --> 00:11:55.909
00:11:56.360 --> 00:12:11.639
00:12:12.299 --> 00:12:20.490
00:12:21.210 --> 00:12:24.600
00:12:24.600 --> 00:12:27.360
00:12:28.049 --> 00:12:35.610
00:12:35.659 --> 00:12:38.610
00:12:39.299 --> 00:12:49.710
00:12:49.769 --> 00:12:52.259
00:12:52.289 --> 00:13:06.000
00:13:06.000 --> 00:13:18.149
00:13:18.720 --> 00:13:25.980
00:13:25.980 --> 00:13:37.830
00:13:38.370 --> 00:13:45.539
00:13:46.769 --> 00:13:54.870
00:13:56.279 --> 00:14:01.049
00:14:01.799 --> 00:14:11.309
00:14:11.700 --> 00:14:21.419
00:14:22.889 --> 00:14:34.980
00:14:35.039 --> 00:14:49.679
00:14:52.929 --> 00:15:05.110
00:15:07.039 --> 00:15:09.440
00:15:10.370 --> 00:15:14.750
00:15:14.870 --> 00:15:16.220
00:15:16.221 --> 00:15:23.179
00:15:23.210 --> 00:15:38.509
00:15:38.510 --> 00:15:41.360
00:15:42.470 --> 00:15:58.700
00:15:58.830 --> 00:16:14.389
00:16:14.390 --> 00:16:25.340
00:16:26.980 --> 00:16:32.590
00:16:32.740 --> 00:16:41.139
00:16:41.799 --> 00:17:10.509
00:17:10.630 --> 00:17:12.430
00:17:13.779 --> 00:17:28.539
00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:42.640
00:17:43.299 --> 00:18:12.460
00:18:12.700 --> 00:18:16.359
00:18:17.500 --> 00:18:23.740
00:18:24.339 --> 00:18:39.880
00:18:40.420 --> 00:19:06.190
00:19:06.640 --> 00:19:26.859
00:19:28.180 --> 00:19:33.099
00:19:33.220 --> 00:19:52.390
00:19:54.039 --> 00:19:56.880
00:19:56.920 --> 00:20:17.789
00:20:18.269 --> 00:20:18.750
00:20:19.049 --> 00:20:27.509
00:20:27.510 --> 00:20:32.069
00:20:32.070 --> 00:20:41.160
00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:46.170
00:20:46.930 --> 00:21:04.180
00:21:04.900 --> 00:21:13.000
00:21:14.519 --> 00:21:23.099
00:21:23.640 --> 00:21:36.299
00:21:36.660 --> 00:21:38.099
00:21:39.119 --> 00:21:46.769
00:21:47.569 --> 00:21:51.119
00:21:51.121 --> 00:21:53.880
00:21:53.881 --> 00:22:00.900
00:22:01.170 --> 00:22:09.690
00:22:10.920 --> 00:22:14.759
00:22:14.760 --> 00:22:20.279
00:22:21.240 --> 00:22:31.200
00:22:31.740 --> 00:22:34.650
00:22:35.160 --> 00:22:37.170
00:22:37.740 --> 00:22:38.430
00:22:39.059 --> 00:22:43.170
00:22:43.740 --> 00:22:54.839
00:22:55.559 --> 00:23:02.730
00:23:03.380 --> 00:23:08.730
00:23:09.329 --> 00:23:20.670
00:23:21.119 --> 00:23:25.980
00:23:26.160 --> 00:23:32.670
00:23:32.670 --> 00:23:38.369
00:23:38.371 --> 00:23:40.079
00:23:40.920 --> 00:23:56.599
00:23:56.601 --> 00:23:57.859
00:23:58.910 --> 00:24:08.329
00:24:09.230 --> 00:24:18.019
00:24:18.920 --> 00:24:30.259
00:24:30.380 --> 00:24:41.150
00:24:41.150 --> 00:24:45.049
00:24:45.050 --> 00:25:00.200
00:25:01.400 --> 00:25:09.259
00:25:10.220 --> 00:25:29.599
00:25:29.720 --> 00:25:32.839
00:25:33.079 --> 00:25:39.980
00:25:40.880 --> 00:25:50.059
00:25:51.349 --> 00:25:59.420
00:25:59.420 --> 00:26:07.190
00:26:07.849 --> 00:26:16.970
00:26:17.119 --> 00:26:20.119
00:26:20.121 --> 00:26:26.240
00:26:26.420 --> 00:26:28.309
00:26:28.310 --> 00:26:41.420
00:26:42.259 --> 00:26:52.769
00:26:53.430 --> 00:27:00.099
00:27:00.150 --> 00:27:06.779
00:27:07.289 --> 00:27:09.690
00:27:09.691 --> 00:27:17.160
00:27:17.519 --> 00:27:25.740
00:27:27.210 --> 00:27:45.299
00:27:46.380 --> 00:27:48.539
00:27:48.900 --> 00:27:51.240
00:27:51.779 --> 00:27:53.250
00:27:53.250 --> 00:27:55.109
00:27:56.009 --> 00:28:03.089
00:28:03.090 --> 00:28:35.369
00:28:36.509 --> 00:28:54.789
00:28:56.019 --> 00:29:08.200
00:29:08.259 --> 00:29:14.740
00:29:15.759 --> 00:29:32.960
00:29:33.890 --> 00:29:37.460
00:29:39.289 --> 00:29:57.509
00:29:59.640 --> 00:30:02.039
00:30:02.040 --> 00:30:03.599
00:30:03.950 --> 00:30:27.509
00:30:27.510 --> 00:30:37.829
00:30:38.250 --> 00:30:41.519
00:30:42.049 --> 00:30:42.339
00:30:42.779 --> 00:30:43.740
00:30:44.609 --> 00:30:46.259
00:30:46.720 --> 00:31:01.019
00:31:03.259 --> 00:31:05.599
00:31:06.049 --> 00:31:26.509
00:31:27.859 --> 00:31:29.569
00:31:30.410 --> 00:31:36.710
00:31:37.579 --> 00:32:14.450
00:32:16.390 --> 00:32:26.440
00:32:28.009 --> 00:32:41.329